The next item, therefore, is a statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care on improving outcomes for looked-after children, and I call on the Minister to make the statement—Huw Irranca-Davies. 

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm very grateful for this opportunity to update Members on our collaborative approach to improving outcomes for looked-after children in Wales. 

It is clear there is consensus among Members from all parties that looked-after children should have the same start in life and opportunities as all children. We clearly state this as our vision and our commitment to looked-after children in the programme for government ‘Taking Wales Forward’ and the national strategy ‘Prosperity for All’. I was pleased to have the chance to discuss the cross-Government approach to realising this vision with my Cabinet colleagues at my first Cabinet meeting earlier this month.

Over the last few years, the numbers of looked-after children in Wales have remained steadily high. Latest figures show that there are 5,662 looked-after children in Wales, with around 700 young people leaving care each year. Through providing a greater focus on prevention and early intervention, I want to see a reduction in the numbers of children coming into care, whilst continuing to ensure the right decisions are taken for every child and young person. This can only be achieved by taking a collaborative approach, working with front-line professionals, managers and decision makers. 

Now, I think I'm on safe ground to say that we all want to work in a collaborative way. And for me, working together to improve the lives of looked-after children is one of the best opportunities we have to demonstrate the value of cross-Government working.

We know that most children flourish and thrive when they are loved and cared for within their own families. But, of course, this does not mean children should be left with families come what may. We acknowledge that there are times when authorities must intervene for the well-being and the safety of children. However, the more we can help families stay together during difficult times by offering the right level of support in the right environment, the more we can do for the children who cannot remain at home.

I have decided the ministerial advisory group established by the former Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children will continue. This group is instrumental in guiding this work and in advising me, drawing its membership from across Government and across the sectors that provide services directly to families. I met with the Chair, David Melding Assembly Member, last week to discuss the pioneering work of this advisory group. David has been ably leading this work and I'm pleased to confirm that he has agreed to continue in this role. 

Achieving our shared vision for looked-after children requires a whole-systems approach and I'm pleased we've been able to assist by providing generous Government funding. Just this year, we have invested £8 million to drive change and improve outcomes for looked-after children. This investment will help make sustainable changes that, over time, will reduce the number of children coming into care. This includes £5 million to expand local authorities' edge-of-care services; £850,000 to expand the Reflect project across all seven regions in Wales—this is a project that works with young mums to break the cycle of repeat pregnancies and recurrent care proceedings; £1.625 million to help care leavers on their journey towards independence by enhancing local authority training and apprenticeship schemes and extending the availability of personal advisers up to the age of 25; £400,000 to deliver the Fostering framework for Wales; and £125,000 to develop adoption support work right across the country. 

Furthermore, our £1 million St David’s Day fund, which we launched in March, is providing flexible, financial support directly to care leavers in the same way that other young people receive financial help from parents. Carl Sargeant was passionate about this fund, and he would be pleased with the positive impact it's already having on care leavers right across Wales.

The group has developed a programme of change based around three themes, and they are: firstly, preventing children entering care, and early intervention—the preventative approach; secondly, improving outcomes for children already in care; and thirdly, supporting care leavers to successful independent futures. Working together, we've already made good progress, and I am grateful to our partners for their commitment and their dedication to working with us. We are now at the stage where we can pick up the pace of improvement and set cross-Government, challenging goals to deliver real step changes to improve the lives of looked-after children.

Research shows us that there is a strong relationship between the number of children entering care and deprivation in local areas. Tackling poverty and building community resilience will help keep families together during times of crisis. This year, we've invested in a range of prevention and early intervention measures to support families and reduce the number of children coming into care. As well as the £5 million investment in edge-of-care services I referred to, we have provided local authorities with £76 million for Flying Start and £38 million for Families First. Our focus going forward is on those early years. We recognise that this is a critical time in terms of child development and outcomes, especially for those living in deprivation. So, work is taking place to develop an integrated early years system to ensure that families get the right support.

To improve outcomes for children already in care, we know that stable placements are crucial for children to feel secure, have a sense of belonging and be able to fulfil their potential. So, we have a three-year joint education and social services plan, entitled 'Raising the ambitions and educational attainment of children who are looked after in Wales'. This plan is supported by £4 million investment via the pupil development grant and it provides targeted educational support to care experienced children. Whilst it is encouraging that, at key stage 4, 23 per cent of looked-after children in Wales achieved level 2 inclusive—a 10 per cent increase from 2013—there is still so much to do to reduce the attainment gap further.

So, as well as improving education attainment, having a stable placement also enhances children’s emotional well-being and resilience. Care experienced children have a greater incidence of poor mental health. To reduce the trauma caused by adverse childhood experiences, we have invested in the establishment of a national ACEs hub, and, through our 'Together for Children and Young People' delivery plan, we have published an agreed care pathway for vulnerable young people, including those looked after to ensure that appropriate referrals are made to access therapeutic support.

For families and professionals involved in foster care, we have provided funding for an innovative social pedagogy pilot, which is exploring the impact of a holistic approach to education and life skills.

As children develop and make their way through life, we want them to be ambitious and to access opportunities so that they become economically active citizens. Yet, we know that 43 per cent of looked-after children are not in education, employment or training. So, through the Government’s youth engagement and progression framework, much work is under way with Careers Wales, youth services, schools, colleges and work-based learning providers to identify and support young people NEET or at risk of becoming NEET.  

In terms of higher education, we are progressing the recommendations from the Diamond review and are preparing to legislate for the benefit of care leavers so that they may receive the maximum level of maintenance grant to support their education from 2018-19.

It would be remiss not to acknowledge today the important fact that between 20 per cent and 30 per cent of young homeless people have been in care. To this end, we have invested £83,000 in the End Youth Homelessness Cymru partnership, which Llamau convenes on our behalf and have recently approved £2.6 million for homelessness projects. Of the 60-plus projects funded, 15 are specifically aimed at preventing homelessness for young people following the positive pathway approach. 

Finally, we are looking at other innovative ways that we can help young care leavers on their road to independence. For example, we are working with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance to consider removing council tax liability from all care leavers aged between 18 and 25. Work to deliver this is in the early stages, but we believe practical help like this will make a real tangible difference.

Delivering a step change in outcomes for looked-after children is a key public policy challenge for us all here in Wales. The Government has set a clear policy direction and will continue to listen to the advice of the ministerial advisory group and the voices of front-line professionals and children and young people who are affected. With the support of this Assembly, our ambition must be to help to transform the outcomes of children, by providing a greater focus on prevention and early intervention, to reduce the numbers of children entering care, to improve the outcomes for those already in care, and supporting care leavers towards independent, successful lives. Thank you.     

Can I make it clear I'm speaking at the moment in my role as chair of the ministerial advisory group? Deputy Presiding Officer, this is the first chance I've had to pay tribute to Carl Sargeant, so I will take that opportunity, because Carl showed great vision and leadership in this area. To convene the group as a ministerial advisory group under the chairmanship of an opposition Member, I think emphasised both the non-partisan nature of this political challenge, but also that we do need the rigour and accountability of ministerial action, and, with that combination, we can really drive up standards. So, we've got a lot to thank Carl for, and we will do so as the work emerges in the next number of years.

Can I also put on record my thanks to the Minister that I have his confidence to continue as the chair of the ministerial advisory group, not least because of the excellence of its members and the many contributions they have already made? I'm pleased to say that the ministerial advisory group fully shares your vision, Minister, and that of the former Cabinet Secretary, that the heart of that is timely, effective, early intervention that ensures we take into care only those children who really need to be looked after and we support those children on the edge of care in their family settings. I think that really has to be at the heart of reform, and the ministerial advisory group was heartened by the £8 million that's been invested in driving this sort of change, with £5 million of that in the edge-of-care service development.

I'd also like to say that some things have emerged from the group that are now clearly reflected in Government statements. The link between deprivation and the numbers being taken into care was something that we specifically looked at in the ministerial advisory group, and I'm sure that the Minister will want to join me in commending in particular the work of one of our members, Professor Jonathan Scourfield of Cardiff University who has done so much in the statistical analysis of this issue, and has been vigilant in ensuring that the role of poverty and inequality is emphasised in any approach to developing policy in these areas.

I'd also like to say that work on educational attainment has progressed quite significantly. The attainment gap is still wide, and we need that ambition to close it. It needs to be connected up, clearly, to things like where foster carers are in providing that support at home for looked-after children. So, there are many loose ends, as it were, that need to be joined up to have this integrated approach. But we have had the first intimations of developing educational strategies that really do start to draw out the full potential of looked-after children and aim for that explicitly.

I think, when we look at care leavers, probably housing is the most important thing for them. For looked-after children, it is usually educational attainment in terms of what their life chances will be, and that feeds back into the stability of their care placement, because, if that's unstable and they're moving around, that's very disruptive. Often, it means they move school, for instance. But, for care leavers, housing and ensuring—through innovative methods like Housing First, where we absolutely preserve that tenancy and support it and ensure that that stability is provided to care leavers.

Can I end by just saying that I think the role of us all, and particularly our colleagues in local government, as politicians—corporate parenting is essential in this area? The great advantage we have is that it's non-partisan. There is no division politically on how we need to progress and the importance all parties place on this, but we need to give political leadership, as well, because it's not always been the case that, in the political arena, this issue has had the emphasis that it should, nor in the wider community or media, sometimes. So, we really need to be first, and, when we are talking about corporate parenting, I think that applies to the Minister, it applies to Assembly Members here, even though it sits more directly with our colleagues and friends in local government. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I thank David for his comments, not least in respect of our former colleague, Carl, and his work in this area, and many other areas as well. It's right to remark that, often, this area, in the past, has not received the attention it was probably due. It was easily overlooked. The whole issue of children and young people in care settings is so easily overlooked, because it only makes the headlines when something goes wrong, as opposed to a collaborative approach, as we're now trying to strive for, which can really have quite a dramatic impact on the outcomes and the life opportunities of young people. And, certainly, Carl saw that very much. He was, indeed, instrumental in establishing the ministerial advisory group and making sure, indeed, that it had that independence and that authority that comes with that independent voice. It is clearly non-partisan. It is very much collaborative in its approach. It's the opposite of finger-pointing. The only pointing that it does is to point at the gaps in provision or knowledge or data or strategy or plans and say, 'Right, now how do we all come together to deal with this?'

I'm delighted that David has taken on the gamut of continuing to chair it, because, having played such a good role already, I think the continuity is very important. As I say, I think the work that the group is doing—the ministerial advisory group—on improving outcomes has reached a point where, already, it has an impressive array of work streams that it's been involved with that have led to tangible outcomes and changes in policy, and it seems to be at that point where it's going to kick on to another step change. I have no doubt, again, it will have direct impacts on the children and young people we're looking at.

Indeed, the work of Jonathan Scourfield I'm aware of and I hope to be meeting soon as well to discuss the work with him and his very much holistic approach on how we tackle these issues, including those wider issues of poverty and the family circumstance, not simply focusing on the child or young person themselves.

So, I trust and have full confidence in the role of David, both in this Assembly, as a Member of this Assembly, but also in chairing that group, to give challenge to the Government, but also to do it in a way that says, 'This is the way in which we can resolve these issues', rather than simply saying, 'Well, hand us a bankroll of money and we can solve it'. We all know it's not as simple as that. It's a number of clever, intelligent interventions on a sustainable way.

Can I thank the Minister for Children and Social Care for his statement on improving outcomes for looked-after children? Obviously, as we debated last week, in the debate here on substance misuse, some children have a horrendous start in life—neglected, abused, tormented, starved of love and affection. Much of this ends up later on in drug and alcohol issues, and homelessness also, as discussed last week. It's right to commend the work of Llamau, as the Minister has already done in his statement—tremendous work, over the years, from Llamau, in recognising and helping to sort out homelessness issues amongst our young people.

I like the idea, as the Minister said here in his penultimate paragraph, about removing the council tax liability from all care leavers aged between 18 and 25. I like that idea, and I hope it comes to fruition. We shall wait and see. Obviously, after such a horrific start, children inevitably can end up in local authority care. Yes, some of us have also been county councillors in our time and very well aware of our continuing corporate parenting role now, but it started off in our local authority days.

Back to the statement and its accent on the preventative agenda, a couple of questions do spring to mind. The first one: obviously, the quality of foster care is all-important, and I understand the national framework for fostering is being discussed. I wonder if the Minister can tell us more about that, including, for example, the extra investment that he'll be putting into training and support for foster carers.

Moving on, the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 means that local authorities must have care plans beyond the age of 18 for looked-after children, including funding continued foster placements, where both parties want it. In terms of funding continued foster placements, how many of these plans have happened, and what is the outcome? I’m sure we would all be pleased to have that information to hand. Obviously, although work to prevent children from entering the care system is all important, what safeguards are there to ensure that children do not end up more damaged because of an ill-advised attempt to prevent them from entering the care system? Finally, while there is support for foster carers and adopters with any behavioural issues, there doesn’t seem to be the wider awareness in the educational system, with some schools apparently not making allowances that a bad start in life may be behind some challenging behaviour that needn’t happen if schools made reasonable adjustments. There are several examples over the years—if just people were just more aware. So, I was wondering if we could ask the Minister to work with the education Cabinet Secretary to ensure that teacher training includes training on issues of neglect, abuse and attachment disorders. Diolch yn fawr.

Dai, thank you very much for those observations and questions as well, which I will try and respond to. First of all, the dialogue that we have across the Cabinet, including with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, on the issue of identification of those who need additional support by professionals working the front line, such as teachers, teachers’ support and so on, is a key issue. It has to be, in order to actually know, then, the right support that needs to be put in place and the right additional help that needs to be put in place. We know, by the way, as Dai will know, that, roughly two thirds of children who are in looked-after situations, the evidence suggests that they have some form of special educational needs. So, it’s not only identifying the situation of being in looked-after care, but it could well be that many of them will have additional educational needs.

I think the thing that we can all agree on in this Chamber as we try and work across Government, but also with other partners on the ground, is that mediocrity, accepting mediocrity, in educational attainment for looked-after children is simply not acceptable. We should be as ambitious for every single child, right across the piece. And whatever we have to bring to that—. Part of that, by the way, is—. I referred to earlier on, particularly with foster care, which Dai mentioned, that we’re funding this social pedagogy—I never get it right, whether it is 'peda-gogy' or 'peda-godgy'. [Interruption.] Thank you. 'Peda-godgy'; thank you very much—which is aiming to improve the educational attainment of children, particularly in foster care. This project looks to support foster parents to be more actively involved with their foster children's education, and helping them to build better links with the education system, which we also know is a key thing—it's the parents being involved in the education of the young person, not simply stepping away from it, standing off. Included within that, by the way, has been a series of masterclasses for people involved in fostering, whether on a personal or even a professional level. They've been very well attended, and the feedback that we have had from them has been excellent as well.

You touched on the issue of homelessness, and those stark figures that I mentioned there, that we know that 20 per cent to 30 per cent of those people who we find homeless have been in care situations. So, we have developed the Welsh youth homelessness positive pathway, which was launched in 2016 by the former Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children. It’s quite a comprehensive approach to helping young people avoid homelessness, and we think that this is the best approach to planning local services—front-line services—for young people. But we do know that more needs to be done, by the way, to embed this across Government, particularly in relation to mental health services.

You also touched on the issue of substance abuse or substance misuse. We've identified this as one of the ACE issues—the adverse childhood experiences—that can alter the early development of a child. Dai, who's a doctor as well, will know that excessive exposure to some of these substances as well can also affect—if the child directly is exposed to them—the neurological development as well, such things as hormonal systems and so on. There were nearly 5,000 reported cases of children in need due to parental substance misuse within 2016. We're investing £50 million to tackle the harms associated with this.

But Dai is absolutely right: in taking all these approaches, we need to make the right decision for the right child in the right circumstance, and whilst our emphasis should be, actually, on early intervention and prevention, there are occasions, as I said in my opening statement, where sometimes it is necessary to remove the child from an environment. But, first of all, we have to do everything to try and make sure that, if we can, they can be kept in that home environment, and only then removed.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. May I say 'congratulations' on your recent appointment? I'm sure that the other Members here will agree with me that, in an ideal world, no child would be taken from their family to be looked after by the state. No matter how caring or dedicated the staff looking after children in care are, there is no substitute for the security of a stable family environment, however that family may be made up. But it of course happens. It's sometimes a horrible necessity that a child has to be taken away from their family, and I'm pleased to see that schemes are in place to reduce the number of children being taken into care in the first place and that there are things being put in place to provide them with support once they come out of care. I would like to see, though, further support being given to children in care, but I'll come on to that in a moment.

Working with young mums to break the cycle of repeated pregnancies is a good idea, as is extending the support available from personal advisers up to the age of 25. But what worries me is that, although I acknowledge that funds are not unlimited, the sums set out in your statement intended to be spent on 5,500 or more children being looked after by the Welsh Government don't seem to me to be particularly large: £400,000 to deliver the fostering network is a relatively small sum, and £125,000 to develop adoption support work across the country represents a tiny amount of money. I mean, it's only £25,000 per region. So, how do you see this money being spent, and how much difference do you think it's going to make to the actual outcomes of looked-after children? The sum set aside to address youth homelessness is tiny, given the number of homeless and rough sleepers in Wales.

Looked-after children are already disadvantaged by the circumstances that took them into care in the first place. Their education will have suffered alongside. It's vital that these children are helped to find a better future, and providing additional educational support is very, very important. The money promised and referred to in your statement as being for that purpose is submerged within the pupil deprivation grant of £4 million, but that £4 million has to provide educational support for deprived children who aren't looked after, as well. So, how much of the pupil deprivation grant will be spent on improving the educational outcomes of looked-after children specifically, and how can you assure us that the money set aside will be sufficient to bring substantive results?

I welcome the proposals to exempt care leavers from council tax; I think that's a brilliant idea. And I would really, really encourage local authorities across Wales to adopt the proposal. As I said, the schemes referred to in your statement are encouraging, and, like I said, I have doubts about whether sufficient resources are being put in place, but I really do hope that the investment that you've referred to, and the schemes that you've referred to, bear the fruit that you and the rest of us hope for. Thank you.

Michelle, thank you very much. I think the nub of your argument—. And by the way, can I just thank you for welcoming the approach that we're taking and what we're trying to achieve with the outcomes? Because this is very much focused on the outcomes, rather than simply saying, 'We tick boxes, we distribute grants, and we keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best'. This is all designed around the idea of collaborating with partners out there, both with local government and with others, and with existing schemes on the ground, such as the Flying Start programme, the Families First programme, and so on, in order to deliver that turnaround in a child or young person's life, in their family situation, that will be enduring and long lasting.

So, what I would say to you, Michelle, is: while some of the individual sums may look small—they're not insignificant, by the way, because we have to find this from a shrinking budget, quite frankly—they are not, because, when you target them in the right way—. And this is the approach: taking advice, by the way; not simply the Welsh Government doing it off the top of its head and saying, 'Well, it's a little bit of money here and a little bit over there'. It's steered very much by the views of front-line professionals, by those who are in care situations themselves, by the ministerial advisory group as well, who are saying that these are the right interventions.

I would say that, if money was no object, frankly, and I had the cheque book, I would write a cheque 10 times as big, and I would transform it tomorrow, and by next year. We’re simply not in that situation. We are where we are, but what we can do is both box cleverer by working much cleverer on the ground, and doing the right interventions, so that those edge-of-care services, for example, and the £8 million additional that we’ve just put into that area of work—that’s exactly the sort of thing. That £8 million can go a long way in the right situation to actually addressing that issue of helping keep children and young people in a family situation where it’s appropriate, by putting the wraparound with them. When you add that to Flying Start and Families First and other interventions, that goes a long, long way.

So, it’s not a question of putting one box over here and saying, ‘This will solve the problem’. It’s actually to do with integrated, collaborative services on the ground that identify the young person, identify the support they need, and pull that support around them. I would simply say: don’t look at just slivers of funding. Look on the ground there, and where the outcomes come. Because the measure of success with this is very much to do with the outcomes: does this mean that the effects for children who are in looked-after care situations are better? Does it mean that those who leave to lead independent lives are improved? Does it mean that, actually, those who are on the edge of going into care—that their opportunities are also improved, and sometimes kept in the family situation as well by better wraparound care?

First of all, I endorse David Melding’s comments about the former Minister and the non-partisan nature of this. I also extend congratulations on your new position.

There are lots of good things here, and I’ve heard lots of good things that you’ve said today. I notice that you said you want to see a reduction in the numbers of children coming into care. I note that you say

‘the more we can help families stay together during difficult times, by offering the right level of support’— that that's the right way to do things. But what concerns me about the cases I get time after time after time is that parents who desperately want to keep the children in this region, South Wales Central, appear to be losing them for a whole variety of reasons, one of which, often, is not safety. I have a case on my books where it’s recognised that the parents love the children, the children love the parents, and unfortunately for the parents, they called in children’s services to get support, and they’ve ended up losing the children, and they’re desperately fighting to get them back, because that particular children’s services department say that these parents don’t have the skills to parent.

I would question that judgment, because far too often parents are saying to me that adoption and care is almost becoming an industry, and the interactions that I’ve had with families—. Ironically, I’ve just had a message through today from a mother who wants me to go and visit because she’s in danger of losing her child. I would say, really, as a former professional teacher, families need support, but what they’re getting is a very adversarial system that interrogates, almost, and there is a tick-box approach from social workers under tremendous pressure. So, I wondered what you thought of those things, and whether or not you’re looking at countries around the world where there is no forced adoption, because forced adoption is something that is really troubling me, looking at the kind of cases that I’ve picked up for far too long, actually, not only in here, but across the road as well.

Neil, thank you for that. Can I say that we always look around the world for best practice? But we can also look on our own doorsteps, because what we know is that there are variations in the approaches taken locally throughout Wales, as there are in England, by the way, as well. But it’s certainly some of that investment into the wraparound families provision. If you look at something like Families First, for example, it often gets missed because, if you say ‘Families First’, people think that’s a lovely cosy thing, but actually that is exactly the multi-agency approach to a family that says where are the areas of competence, of expertise, of knowledge that that family needs in order to provide a stable, resilient family environment for children.

The investment in things like Families First is helped by our analysis of things like the ACEs hub, which we've now invested in, which identifies those areas of adverse childhood experiences. We know that if you have two or three or four of them, it's more likely that that child is going to be in difficulty, if not actually taken into care. So, how do things like Families First help to avoid that situation? How does it wrap around that family? We've put £270 million in the Families First programme since 2012. It provides that supportive, enriching environment for children. It reduces the incidence of adverse childhood experiences. The approach taken here provides families with coherent packages of support, through a multi-agency approach that helps them as a family develop the skills for them, but also for their children as well. Those sort of approaches are definitely the way forward. We know it because it achieves the outcomes we've been talking about. But it takes long-term, sustained investment, working with families, to do it.

The point where I would agree and where we need to look at is how do we shift the curve, recognising that we have to make sure that we invest in the outcomes for children and young people who are leaving care and those people who are currently within care. We have to do that, but we also somehow have to shift the curve to make sure that we're investing more in those early years and prevention, because that is the thing that will give those families the support that avoids the necessity in future of more children being taken into care. But, sometimes, it is inevitable that the right thing for the child in a particular situation is that they're taken into care. In such a circumstance, we need to make sure that it's done with the most expert judgment, with the most compassion, and also that it's done sharing best practice, not just from abroad, but actually up the road in Wales as well.

Minister, can I also thank you for today's statement and welcome you to your new role? Congratulations. Also, I follow other Members in paying tribute to Carl Sargeant for his important work in this area over many years. It's not an easy area to deal with, but he did it with determination and panache. It's strange him not being in this Chamber when this issue is being discussed. 

I just want to say a few words, given that the Public Accounts Committee will be launching our inquiry into looked-after children, or care-experience children as we prefer to call them, in the new year. It will be a far-reaching inquiry that will primarily consider the effectiveness of spend on this area of the Welsh budget, because as you said, it is a considerable area of spend and we want to have the maximum benefit for those children in need that you've identified. It's also a subject that the Public Accounts Committee intends to return to in stages over the remainder of this Assembly term, rather than it being a one-off inquiry that will then just be left. We think that it's important enough to revisit. 

The figures that you've mentioned justify the approach. The number of children in care in Wales is 90 children per 10,000 people, compared to a lower rate of 60 per 10,000 people in England. So, if you combine that with the statistic that spending on services has increased markedly since 2011, there are clearly many questions that need to be looked at. 

Turning to your statement in particular, you've hinged your statement on delivering the programme for government. Can I ask you—? You cite collaboration extensively in your statement as being all-important in helping the Welsh Government achieve its objectives. How are you going to ensure that effective collaboration between front-line professionals, managers and decision makers really works on the ground in practice? It's a noble objective for a strategy, but it needs to be more than that. We've heard many noble objectives in this Chamber and many strategies over many years—I can see the finance Secretary will agree with me—but it's about converting those objectives into real progress on the ground that all of us would like to see. 

And crucially, I suppose, what resource will be committed to delivering this aspect of 'Prosperity for All'? The cost of promoting cross-Government working is not always an easy one to estimate, I know, but we do need to have some basic idea of what the cost is going to be and how that is going to be funded over the years to come—beyond your comment earlier, I think in response to Michelle Brown, that you shouldn't just see this as slivers of funding in different budgets, but you should be looking at the holistic whole.

Can I welcome, as you have, the work of my colleague David Melding and the ministerial advisory group over some considerable time now? I know they've done a lot of good work in this area. Over time, we'd all like to see a reduction in the number of children coming into care, but of course this must be balanced by a need to provide those children who do need to be cared for with the support they need, in the way that they need it, and when they need it. So, how do you intend to ensure that, in these circumstances, care is individually tailored to young people's needs and we avoid a one-size-fits-all, off-the-shelf care package?

I think you anticipated my question earlier, when you spoke about—well, I don't think you called it 'co-production' but certainly the principles of putting the citizen at the centre and tailoring care to the particular needs of the individual is I think uppermost in your thoughts. And I think that can be a big difference here, above and beyond funding issues. If you can actually put the care-experience child at the centre of that process, not just at the centre of care, but at the centre of the decision-making process about deciding how they're going to be looked after, then you can make a big difference as a Minister by achieving that aim.

And finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, we do, of course, need to address the issue of what happens after care, again, something you mentioned. I welcome your ambition to remove the council tax burden from care leavers up to the age of 25. I think that's got a lot of potential and really is worth exploring. That's a good development. We know, statistically, that adults who have been through the care system are more likely to suffer problems, including drug misuse, and are more likely to be in prison. The proportion of the prison population who have been in care is marked and is clearly trying to tell us something.

You've also said in your statement that up to 30 per cent of homeless people have been in care at some point. So, how do we ensure that care continues in some form, as long as possible, and that the curtain doesn't simply come down when a young person reaches 18, because they're too often viewed as adults at that point, and we know that, actually, you don't suddenly go from being in care to being out and left to your own devices in the world when the clock strikes 12 and you suddenly become 18. People need support after that. And I don't think that's always been there or always been pre-eminent in the past. I think that this is again an area in which you as a Minister can really make some big changes to the way that care-experience or looked-after children are cared for in Wales. And I wish you success in that venture and look forward to working with you next year when the Public Accounts Committee begins our inquiry into this important area. 

Thank you. And I'll reciprocate by saying that I look forward to helping the committee in its work, either appearing in person or by evidence, whichever you require, how often you require—perhaps not every week, but whenever you need me there. And can I thank you as well for your recognition, Nick, of what you, I think, termed the significant funding that is going in, not only on its own in terms of the targeted funding for interventions with children in looked-after care, or those who are at the point of entering looked-after care, but also as part of the wider package care there? You make the really important point about how we make sure that this is driven home. Well, it is now fundamentally embedded: it's there within our plans going forward and it's there as a key ambition. Improving outcomes for children in care is a key ambition within 'Taking Wales Forward'. It's within the priorities in the national strategy 'Prosperity for All'. And as you know, some of those documents have been criticised for being light on words, but it's in there—it's bolted in there, front and foremost. We are committed, absolutely committed, to ensuring that all looked-after children enjoy the same life chances as other children. But a lot of this will, I have to say, be driven by the work that's already in train, including that driven by the ministerial advisory group on improving outcomes for children. Let me just touch on some of those because they're significant in the way that it's been taken forward.

Thank you for the kind words again about Carl. It was under Carl that phase 1 was taken forward, back in 2015-16. There's a phase 2 programme under way already, chaired ably by David Melding. It's based on the three themes that I described earlier on. Collaboration is fundamental to this, but it's interesting the way that it takes that collaboration forward in specifics. So, it's got a wide-reaching programme, and as part of phase 2, it looks at things such as professional practice, assessment of risk and edge-of-care services, permanency planning, building stable placements. Each work stream is chaired by a local authority head of children's services. It's vice-chaired by a representative from the third sector. There are 25 work areas within that work programme. They cover research, pilot projects, policy development, improvements, tangible improvements to professional practice and so on, and the group has produced its framework for action, which gives real detail to the pathways in which we will achieve these improved outcomes. And that, of course, is backed up by the additional funding that we are putting in place. So, have no doubt of the commitment of this Government to deliver on this, but to do it by working in collaboration with those on the front line, in collaboration with children and young people themselves, and the work of the ministerial advisory group. It's deeply embedded within Government. And I'm keen—and I thank you for your kind words on my coming into this post—to take forward this work, and to see that real step change that I think we can now do.

Thank you. Finally, Caroline Jones.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you for your statement Minister. And I too would like to pay tribute to the work and dedication of Carl Sargeant in this area.

As others have highlighted, outcomes for looked-after children are well below those of children who are not in our care system. We have to provide additional support for these children, who have already had the worst possible start in life. However, according to Action on Children Cymru, there is a postcode lottery in the support available to children in care. This is unacceptable. I am pleased that the Welsh Government have acknowledged this, and have allocated additional funding to improve the life chances for these young people. I would also like to acknowledge the work undertaken by David Melding, who has a long and distinguished record for standing up for looked-after children. And I am pleased that David will continue to chair the ministerial advisory group.

I have just a couple of questions for you, Minister. There have been a number of concerns raised about children’s services in Bridgend, and we are told that the courts in Bridgend have lost trust in the local authority’s ability to carry out its duties with regard to looked-after children. This has led to a number of children being placed out of county. Minister, what steps are you taking to end the postcode lottery, referred to by Action on Children? How will you ensure that children’s services are able to fulfil their duties to both protect young people, ensure they achieve the best possible outcomes, and put an end to out-of-county placements where possible?

Minister, I am pleased to see that there is additional funding to support care leavers on their journey towards independence. This is an area that we have, in the past, failed in. The recent Children in Need DIY SOS programme highlighted the absolutely fantastic work undertaken by the Roots Foundation in my region. As well as running an activities centre for young people in care, Roots provided support housing for young people in care and leaving care. They help provide the necessary skills to enable young care leavers to live independently. Minister, does your Government have any plans to replicate the work of the Roots Foundation to other parts of Wales? And finally, Minister, what is your Government doing to support charities like Roots, who play a vital role in supporting looked-after children, and help to improve outcomes for these vulnerable young people?

Thank you again for your statement, and I hope that we can all work together, collaboratively, to improve outcomes for looked-after children. Thank you.

Thank you very much for those comments, and your welcome again, and the recognition of Carl's work in this area as well.

One of the ways in which we're looking to take that step forward, and to avoid this postcode lottery situation, the way that there are differences, variability—. We want, by the way, to have innovation—we want innovation. We want it to be based on the needs of the local population, and what those needs of those children in care, or children facing a care situation, are. But we need to make sure that they have quality services provided to them and quality support. Now, part of that, in terms of, for example, the early intervention, and the early years, is trying to roll out best knowledge and best practice on what actually works, and then allowing those local areas to pick up the very best, rather than constantly reinventing the wheel.

Now, one approach to that is we're taking an approach to early years integration, based on early intervention and prevention—an integrated early years system for families and parents. Now, what we're aiming to do with this is to ensure that all programmes and services for the early years come together seamlessly, to get the best value for parents and children. We know there are some in the Bridgend area; there are some really good individual programmes for families and young people. How do you pull them together seamlessly within? I have to acknowledge again the limited resources available. In fact, that puts an added incentive—make sure that they work together well.

So, my officials have begun discussions with colleagues across Welsh Government, from health, social services and education, to scope how we take this forward, with the goal of achieving a much more coherent and focused approach to those early years. And a key component of this programme will be an intensive project with two public service boards, one in the Valleys and one in north Wales, to see how early years services might be reconfigured based on closer working between the local health boards, local authorities, Welsh Government and other partners. So, the idea is that we design services that support this long-term preventative approach and it could potentially be a model to be utilised more widely across Wales. Now, that's the approach we're thinking through at different levels of intervention—how do we make it seamless and how do we learn best practice and share it across Wales?

You referred to an interesting organisation—Roots. I'd like to find out more about that to look at it. I don't think we're so much in the era now of simply identifying a group and saying, 'Well, here's a Welsh Government grant.' What we are in the business, however, of saying is that the local partners on the ground should be, with the funding available, looking at what the needs of that local population are and then deciding who can provide that best. But I'd like to hear more about that project—perhaps we can talk or you can write to me. Thank you. 

Thank you very much.