Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:40 pm on 29 November 2017.
I'm grateful to the leader of the opposition for giving way just on this point, because one of the things that I think we've lost focus on in some of this debate is this holding a public parliamentary process by which key questions can be asked. One of the questions I would want to ask, which I will not get to ask now in such a public forum, it looks to me, because we're going to vote a certain way, is: what was the definition of bullying used by the First Minister when he said that no specific allegations of bullying had been made? Because the Welsh Government's own dignity at work policy makes it clear that you don't need to allege bullying; it's a pattern of behaviour that should be investigated, and that's what we can do usefully in an open public arena. And we'd give assurances to the public, not only by having experts who rightly have the legal ability to scrutinise these things independently, but also by challenging that evidence in open, public fora.