As you know, the proposed site at Baglan, Cabinet Secretary, is in my region. I'm very interested to see the steps that both Governments will take on this next. As I said in my contribution to the debate a few weeks ago that I have fewer reservations about the concept of these large-site prisons for the reason I gave then, which boil down essentially to their better rehabilitation rates and better facilities for prisoners and their visitors and staff as compared to the older prisons. I won't have time to dispute at length with you on that, but I think that's a contestable statement you made earlier.

I've already visited Swansea and Parc but since the last debate have taken the opportunity to visit HMP Berwyn in Wrexham to help me develop my views on this a little bit—whether the type of modern prison is what I thought it was and whether the Baglan site would be appropriate. While I fully appreciate that this will be highly unlikely to change their views, I'm very pleased that three objectors to the plans have agreed to come with me, as soon as I can agree a date, to visit HMP Berwyn to find out a little bit more for themselves about the type of prisons we're talking about here.

When you make visits like this as an Assembly Member, you expect to see the best or worst gloss on what you're seeing, depending on why you're there. I think this is something we perhaps all recognise. And, if you're wise, then you factor that into your impressions. But even so, I would like to thank my hosts for some very frank and open discussion when I was there, even though the south Wales plans are nothing to do with HMP Berwyn, and I hope that the openness that they displayed then would be extended to anyone with an interest in this.

Questions about potential burdens on local services and partnership working were met with credible answers that were in accord with answers given by Welsh Government here in the Chamber previously—