8. Debate: Stage 4 of the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Bill

– in the Senedd at 6:15 pm on 12 December 2017.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:15, 12 December 2017

(Translated)

The next item is the debate on Stage 4 of the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Bill. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to move the motion—Kirsty Williams.

(Translated)

Motion NDM6613 Kirsty Williams

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 26.47:

Approves the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Bill.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 6:15, 12 December 2017

Thank you, Llywydd. I formally move the motion on this afternoon's order paper.

Nearly a quarter of all children and young people will have some form of additional learning need during their education. The current system of support is based on a model introduced more than 30 years ago and we know it is no longer fit for purpose. For over a decade, reports and reviews have challenged the Government to find a more effective and less adversarial way to ensure that children and young people get the right support and get it quickly, so that they can achieve their full potential. This Bill is the foundation of our ambitious programme to transform the current system. It has been a long time in the making. That's why today, the anniversary of its introduction, is so important; important for this National Assembly, yes, but more importantly, for the hundreds and thousands of young people and families who will benefit from the new additional learning needs system.

Members are aware of 'Education in Wales: Our national mission', our plan for delivering an education system that is a source of national pride and public confidence. Our ALN transformation programme is a key aspect of this and I'm delighted that it has reached this stage. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my predecessors in this and the last Assembly for bringing forward this vital piece of legislation. I'm grateful in particular to the former Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language, Alun Davies, for taking the Bill through the scrutiny stages. It is my privilege to be able to help steer it through its final stages and onto the statute books, and, crucially, towards implementation.

The then Minister said two things at the start of this legislative journey. He said he wanted

'a good Act, and not a quick Bill' and that the Government had no monopoly on good ideas. The events of the last year, as this Bill has progressed, have proved him right on both counts. The Bill is a product of years of co-construction, joint development, engagement, testing and learning, with partners and stakeholders deeply involved and, indeed, often leading the way throughout. When it was introduced a year ago, the Bill was already well considered and supported, but there is no doubt it has benefited from the scrutiny undertaken by this Assembly. 

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank the Chairs, members and staff of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee and the Finance Committee for their diligent consideration, which has strengthened the robustness of the Bill. I also wish to put on record my thanks to the spokespeople of the Welsh Conservatives and Plaid Cymru in particular for their support and challenge. Their contributions have directly benefited the Bill in key areas, including around the role of the health service and the place of the Welsh language in the new system.

I want to quickly mention a very recent development that will require a minor amendment to the Bill when it becomes an Act. Appointments to the Special Educational Needs Tribunal for Wales were not previously part of the Judicial Appointments Commission, which was an oddity. An order made by the UK Government's Ministry of Justice, which came into force on 1 December, remedied that for the first time and that is to be welcomed. As a result, we propose to amend section 91 of the Bill by order. This will remove the agreement role of the Lord Chief Justice and the president. It will bring appointments to the future education tribunal into line and normalise the position, as has been done for SENTW. An agreement has been reached with the UK Government for dealing with this, which in practice is a small, technical issue. 

I want now to focus on the future as we move into a new and exciting phase. The transformation programme is a priority I know we all share. Yesterday, I set out how we intend to implement the Bill and the wider reforms. There will be challenges ahead, but we are in a good place with key delivery partners engaged and supporting us to drive the change. The new transformation leads who'll take up post in the new year will help accelerate the progress up to and beyond 2020.

In closing, Presiding Officer, let me reiterate the real and genuine opportunity we have today. Passing this Bill will represent a huge step towards improving the life chances of our learners with additional learning needs. They may be a minority in our education system, but they have a right to equity in their education, securing successful futures for them, and I know that this is something all of us across this Chamber will want to see. 

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 6:20, 12 December 2017

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her opening statement today in this important debate? I share with her the ambition that we should have an additional learning needs system that meets the needs of children and young people across Wales, and that deals with some of the deficiencies in the current special educational needs system, which are all too apparent from much of the casework that we receive as Assembly Members. I think it goes without saying that I think there were still some other improvements that could have been made to the Bill, and that's why I tabled amendments at Stage 3, particularly around the national health service and its redress system not fitting completely and discretely within the new ALN system that will emerge as a result of this Bill. 

But that said, I think that this Bill is something that we as Welsh Conservatives want to commend. It is something that we want to see implemented as soon as possible so that we can have that system, which some people are already benefiting from because of the pilots that were initiated by the previous portfolio holder. And I want to pay tribute to the previous portfolio holder for the way that he engaged with the committee during Stages 1 and 2, and also for the way that he gave us access to some of his officials as well from time to time, and the discussions that they had with me and my office in helping to develop our thinking as well in terms of the way that the Bill was taken forward. 

I was very pleased indeed to see the Welsh Government accept recommendations and amendments around ensuring that the UN conventions on the rights of the child and disabled persons were embedded into the face of this legislation, and I'm looking forward to seeing this new system up and running as soon as possible. You made references to the scrutiny process and how that has helped to improve this Bill. Can I say that I was really pleased with the response of the Welsh Government to the concerns that I raised in the committee at Stage 2 in relation to young people who are detained for mental health reasons, and making sure that we still will have adequate provision for those young people should they have additional learning needs? And I was very grateful for the engagement and the assurances that you've given us through the amendments that have now been made that their needs will not be overlooked. 

And just finally, I am a little bit disappointed, obviously, that at such a late stage the reference to the UK Government's order has only just been picked up. I do think that it brings into question, really, just how departments here are checking what's going on at Westminster and the implications that that might have here for us in the National Assembly, and indeed for the things that the Welsh Government are doing. I can hear people rumbling in the Chamber at those comments, but I think from our discussion on Friday, Cabinet Secretary, you appreciate that this is a point that needs to be made and, indeed, you share some of those concerns. So, I think it is important that where things are taking place at Westminster that may have implications for our legislation, that we pick those up as soon as possible. This one can be rescued—that's why we're supporting Stage 4 today, and we very much hope that this Bill will make a difference to the lives of people across the whole of Wales.   

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 6:24, 12 December 2017

(Translated)

May I echo the thanks that have been given to everyone who have participated, from the stakeholders to Government representatives and committee members, and the officials of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, as this Bill has proceeded through the Senedd? There is no doubt that there has been a consensus from the outset on the need to reform additional learning needs. We've already heard the view that the current legislation is dated and has led to a system that is overly complex and created too much conflict, and that the picture is inconsistent across Wales. 'Postcode lottery' is a term used in many contexts, but it's certainly true in this case from the point of view of the provision available across Wales. 

New, more fit-for-purpose legislation was part of the Plaid Cymru manifesto, of course, in the Assembly election. It was also part of the agreement between my party and the Government, and I am pleased that we've reached this point today and that we are in a position to complete the process, in terms of this Parliament, anyway, to make this Bill an Act. I also want to recognise that the Cabinet Secretary and the predecessor Minister had certainly listened to the issues raised by stakeholders, by the committee, by myself and by others, and had responded positively to many of those issues. That's not to say that the Bill is exactly as I would want it to be, but certainly it is different and much improved compared to the Bill that was originally tabled.

We succeeded in significantly strengthening, as we have already heard, the duties in terms of the UN conventions on the rights of children and disabled people. That was a strong recommendation made by the committee and something that Plaid Cymru had endorsed from the outset. As we've heard, local authorities, boards of governors of schools, and so on, will also have to consider the specific needs of Welsh speakers who have  additional learning needs. I am also pleased that we've succeeded in ensuring that long-term workforce planning provision is in place in the Bill in order to ensure that there is an adequate workforce available to meet the needs of children with additional learning needs, in whatever language, in years to come.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 6:26, 12 December 2017

The inclusion of medical conditions in the definition of additional learning needs certainly is a positive outcome, and an all-Wales template and clear timescales for preparing independent development plans, provision for preschool children and young people in further education and the provision of independent advice and advocacy as well are all positives.

That's not to say that everything in the ALN garden is rosy. We were disappointed that the Government hasn't given the education tribunal full powers over health, which is clearly one area of disagreement. The narrative for the Bill and the wider reforms was to create a simpler, easier to navigate, child-centred system. Retaining two systems of redress—one for education, one for health—for a sector where very often there is crossover between the two, I think, undermines that somewhat and I think that is a missed opportunity, as is not including work-based learning in the provisions of the Bill. We talk very often about parity of esteem, and we are told by stakeholders that children and young people with additional learning needs are more likely to go into a vocational education. For us to omit work-based learning, I think, is another missed opportunity. 

The additional learning needs code, of course, will be consulted on in the autumn, and that will be crucial in terms of the Bill's implementation. Many promises have been made regarding the content of the code and it'll be down to all of us now to make sure that we hold the Government to those promises. Transport, as well, is an important factor that didn't find its way onto the face of the Bill, but will certainly be a key part of the code. It's something we've rehearsed in committee regularly and it needs to be addressed substantially in the code.

Now, the passage of the legislation hasn't been without challenge, clearly. Twice this year the Welsh Government had to recalculate how much the legislation would cost to implement, which led to some delays in the process, and, as we've already heard in the last few days, issues relating to tribunal appointments have come to the fore. So, I can only say that, clearly, lessons will need to be learnt from those experiences. But, looking ahead, I'd say it's crucial now that adequate resources are provided to cover the costs of implementation and that the workforce is fully prepared for what will be a fundamental change and, I have to say, on the whole, a change for the better for children and young people with additional learning needs. 

With your permission, Presiding Officer, I would like to make one final point. One party in this Assembly told us when they came here that they were coming here to shake things up. That same party has been largely invisible over the last 12 months of scrutinising and amending this legislation. Throughout committee stage, not a single amendment. Of the hundreds of amendments put forward, not a single solitary amendment from UKIP. At Plenary stage, no amendments. Not a single word uttered in support or otherwise of any aspect of this legislation. That leads me to conclude that either they have no opinion on this, which is difficult to believe for a party that is usually quite opinionated on most issues, or they haven't engaged in this process at all, which does a disservice to those children and young people who most need this legislation, it's a disservice to your electors, and it's a disservice to this institution. It's left me, and many of the stakeholders who've raised this issue with me, feeling frustrated, let down and very, very angry.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:30, 12 December 2017

(Translated)

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to reply to the debate. Kirsty Williams.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. 

All I can say, Llyr, in response to the comments that you've made, is that sometimes the issue isn't about quantity, it's about quality, and I'm very grateful to the Plaid Cymru group and to the Conservative group for the quality of their work on this legislation as it goes forward. I think that should be acknowledged. As I said in my opening statement, I think that this is a better piece of legislation because of the contribution that has been put forward by both parties, and that is how it should be.

Llyr is absolutely right: there was cross-party support in the Assembly elections and a recognition that the status quo was not an option and that change was needed. I hope that, as we move forward with this process, we will deliver the change that so many children, their parents, their carers and, indeed, the professionals that work with those families need.

Darren, I'm very grateful for your support, and can I just take this opportunity to pay tribute also to Angela Burns, who took a huge interest in this issue in the previous Assembly and who, because of portfolio changes, hasn't been able to follow this piece of legislation through. But I know that she has been keeping a close watch on what you've been saying at the committee and what you've been doing as you've shadowed this piece of legislation through, because I know of her personal commitment to this agenda.

Darren is absolutely right: we are not sitting back and waiting for Royal Assent; change is already happening in schools. The Welsh Government is already funding regional multi-agency innovation projects to develop and test aspects of this new approach. So, there is change happening now.

Llyr, you will have heard in the Stage 3 debate the Government's commitments around the issue of transport and the issue of work-based learning. Perhaps there are opportunities, as we've said before, between contracts with work-based learning providers to address some of these issues, and, of course, we are embarked on a wider set of post-compulsory education and training reforms, so there are opportunities to look at these issues there.

It is right, Presiding Officer, that, sometimes, legislation isn't easy. Of course, there is that old hackneyed saying about legislation and sausages—you really don't want to be too familiar with the process of what happens; what's really important is the project that you get at the end. And I would like to commend this particular product to the Assembly. I hope that, with support from Members across the Chamber today, we can create another historic day, this time for Welsh education. It's my pleasure to present this Bill, but let us be under no illusions: this Bill is just the start of the process, because it will be the code and the subordinate legislation and changes in attitude and practice on the ground that will really make the difference, but we cannot move forward without this legislation. Therefore, I commend it to colleagues across the Chamber.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:33, 12 December 2017

(Translated)

In accordance with Standing Order 26.50C, a recorded vote must be taken on Stage 4 motions. Therefore, I defer voting on this motion until voting time. 

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:33, 12 December 2017

(Translated)

Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will proceed directly to voting time.