I very much welcome the opportunity to debate the Petitions Committee report on ensuring access to public transport for disabled people. This was a classic example of what organisations expect to happen when you talk to people at the top of the organisation and what actually happens when disabled people try and access transport. And I think David Rowlands gave some examples of what we were told about how you could get a taxi to the next station—when I mentioned that to some disabled people, they looked at me in bewilderment.

I was Chair of the Petitions Committee when Whizz-Kidz gave their evidence. Can I, as I did at the committee—but I'd like to do it now, on the record here—thank Whizz-Kidz and congratulate them for coming along to give evidence to the committee? It's not an easy thing to give evidence to a committee, and I know how nervous a lot of older adults from organisations get when they have to come and talk to committees. These were a group of young people, but they had their beliefs that they needed to get their point over, and they certainly did.

Whizz-Kidz presented problems around access to train, bus and taxi services to the committee. These problems included: the inability to travel at short notice; a lack of staff training across all transport modes, which results in disabled people being made to feel like a burden or being unable to travel at all; a lack of support on trains and issues with the accessibility of trains and stations, including when lifts are not working. Whizz-Kidz also highlighted that accessibility issues can impact on a young people's ability to look for work and socialise, as travelling can be too much of a hassle—it's too much of a problem, it's too difficult. These issues can also impact on young disabled people's confidence, leaving them feeling isolated, and meaning that they don't feel equal to their peers who do not use wheelchairs.

Whizz-Kids provided the committee with video evidence, which included Josh's story, which highlighted many of the barriers facing young disabled people when travelling by train in south Wales. This was on the Petitions Committee site; I think it probably still is, if it isn't, can I ask, Deputy Presiding Officer, if we can make it available from here, so that people can access it? Because it really does tell the story from the position of a young man trying to access trains.

Concern was also expressed regarding the ability of people with hearing and sight loss to use public transport safely. For people with sight loss, a simple thing that could help them is the driver of a bus telling them when they get to the place they want to get off. That's a very simple thing, it doesn't need legislation, it's just good practice that should exist with bus companies. A lot of these things here that we're asking for and we need are not legislation, but good practice.

The train and bus operators that gave evidence to the committee outlined the varying levels of disability awareness training provided to staff. There is currently no mandatory requirement for bus operators to require drivers to complete disability awareness training. However, First Cymru said that all bus companies were required to provide disability awareness training from 1 March as part of the driver certificate of professional competence. But, training is only of benefit if it is acted upon. It is necessary for bus companies to ensure that drivers carry out what they've been trained to do. It's pointless telling them during a training session of three hours that they've got to do things if the next day they ignore it. I attended a dementia training session with First Cymru a few years ago. The training was very good, but it needs to be acted upon, and in First Cymru's case in Swansea, it has been.

The accessibility of trains and stations was also examined by the committee. The train operators stated that whilst new trains are accessible, older trains aren't. Concern was also raised around the availability and accessibility of taxis and private hire vehicles, especially at certain times of the day. The Licensed Private Hire Car Association said that, as most drivers are self-employed, taxi operators and licensing authorities cannot demand that drivers of certain vehicle types are available at certain times of day. But I think that there are ways of ensuring we get enough vehicles that can take people with guide dogs or take people in wheelchairs so that there will always be one available.

To me, the clear recommendation is: introduce disability awareness training for customer-facing train and station staff under the new Wales and borders franchise, bus drivers as part of the voluntary Welsh bus quality standard, and taxi and PHV drivers. [Inaudible.]—anyone who discriminates against disabled people out of prejudice, but we need training. We need to make sure our training is implemented. With no lack of will with the leaders of the organisations, what we need is an improvement on the implementation at operational level to ensure that what organisations think is happening, what we want to happen and what disabled people need to happen actually happens when somebody tries to access a vehicle. Thank you.