Well, I met with Irish Ferries yesterday, so I discussed with them their plans, and it is good, as I said earlier on, that they are looking to invest in new ships. But the Irish Road Haulage Association are very, very concerned about the potential for delay. They don't see border controls in terms of there being passport controls, but their concerns are: (a) will there be customs checks; and (b) will they be comprehensive or random? They were never comprehensive in the past; they were always random. And in reality there is no other way of doing customs checks without having miles and miles of traffic queueing.

My argument is this: I want to see an open border between the north and south of Ireland. I know that border exceptionally well, and I know it's impossible to see it, if that's the word you want to use, in any event. In the days of the Troubles, minor roads were blown up by the British Army and there were crossing points at various main roads. That's before there was a motorway built across the border. So, in reality, it's impossible to police that border from a customs perspective.

Good—if a way is found of doing that, I have no argument, but my argument is this: the same arrangements must apply to the maritime border between Ireland and Wales. We can't afford to have a situation where the maritime border is seen as more difficult, more bureaucratic and more troublesome for freight operators than the border between the north and south in Ireland. Why? There's an incentive there for goods to move through Northern Ireland to Scottish ports and into Liverpool and to avoid the Welsh ports, if that border is seen as more problematic. If it applies to one, it has to apply to all.