May I thank the Member for his very illuminating contribution? I also thank him for his work and interest in this area, particularly as Chair of his committee.

I'm just about old enough myself to remember getting the money back when you took the Corona bottle back, but I think I used to keep it and use it for a mixed bag of sweets, so that's probably not the behavioural change we'd be looking to go for. I think the Cabinet Secretary for health would have something to say about that if I were to suggest that as a policy going forward. [Interruption.] Yes.488

Looking at the how we could use taxation and behavioural campaigns, I think it's actually how we get that balance of the carrot-and-stick approach and, at the same time, to make people aware of why we're doing this and why it's important and the difference that it makes too. So, we're looking in terms of the fact that, yes, it's good for our environment long term, and for our future generations, but also there are economic and social benefits as well from reusing and recycling.489

On promoting less material and packaging, yes, absolutely, I think it's something that could be considered, and that's why it's so important the work that Welsh Government does in terms of working with our stakeholders and working groups across Government to look at how we can engage with the sector. That also goes back to making sure that we are getting that investment in terms of having the innovation and infrastructure in there to be able to make these advances.490

I do hear what he says about the fact that you probably couldn't have your tin of baked beans not packaged, especially if you forget to take your carrier bag to the supermarket. It has absolutely changed behaviour and I think it shows us how that can be done and gives us that—. That's why I think, in Wales, we have such a good platform to build on. If anybody else is like me, you've got a boot full of bags ready for when you call into the shop—and I was talking to some people about this—but sometimes, you forget them. Particularly now, in this position, I'm probably carrying out a load of things like this and trying not to drop them or I run out and leave somebody else to deal with it if I've forgotten my bag. We have seen that shift in awareness and why it's important now as well. That is something we are looking at: how we continue to build on that in a way that not only businesses understand, but also that behavioural change so that people are actually 100 per cent behind it and passionate and believe in why we're doing it as well.