Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:39 pm on 28 February 2018.
It’s a pleasure to participate in this debate on this wonderful report, which has been produced by the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. And may I echo the thanks to our current Chair, Mick Antoniw, to Huw Irranca-Davies, our Chair for the first nine months, and also to the clerks and researchers who have been working very hard behind the scenes to produce this masterpiece? Because the gestation period was lengthy, as they say, and, of course, as Mick has just said, certain aspects changed over time, and the report has therefore changed to reflect that, and has been strengthened as background factors have changed.
We started by taking evidence on the Wales Act 2017, and, of course, it's true to say that during scrutiny of the Wales Act 2017 we asked the Secretary of State, Alun Cairns MP, to appear before our committee on four occasions, and he didn't appear once. That gives you some background of how Westminster views committees of this place. And Alun Cairns still denies that we have lost substantial powers due to the Wales Act, although we all know in this place that we are rushing through the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Bill before we lose the power to legislate in that area on 1 April. April fool indeed.
So, in losing powers through the Wales Act, we also see that we are losing powers through the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, although Alun Cairns also denies or rejects that. With all of these negotiations about leaving the European Union, it's clear, as Mick Antoniw said, that Wales has been on the periphery. Our Government has been put to one side, there are decisions being taken and we are not happy with those decisions. Even with issues that are important to Wales, such as the devolved issues—when they are discussed, we are not part of those discussions, and that's why it's crucially important that our first recommendation in this report is that we strengthen the JMC. We heard yesterday that that joint committee hasn't met since January 2017. It needs to be strengthened, it needs to meet, and it needs to reform how it works—and not just work as the voice of London and the voice of Westminster, but as an equal voice for all Governments in these isles. We gravely need to change that, and that's the basis of our first recommendation and recommendations 2 and 3.
Once this European withdrawal Bill is done with we need long-term planning for the JMC so that it becomes a council for the United Kingdom that makes decisions on the basis of equality—all Governments and all Parliaments respecting each other on the basis of equality. That doesn't happen at the moment. It's about time it did happen, and that is why we desperately need to change the system of the JMC, because it's an insult to our nation at the moment that we are losing these powers and nobody is doing hardly anything about it. We are trying to do something about it, and, to be fair, our Government is trying to do something about it, but people aren't listening and they deny that any problems exist. That isn't fair and it is disrespectful of what has happened here in the context of devolution.
Of course, we need better collaboration between committees of this place and committees of our other Parliaments, and we also need to scrutinise Ministers from elsewhere in this place. That's why we make recommendations to that end in our report.
But to conclude, we desperately need to reform the governance of the UK. Yes, the excuse now is that we are leaving Europe, and I note that UKIP Members, who caused this mess of leaving the European Union, aren't in attendance to listen to this debate on how we are trying to resolve this mess. But finding ourselves in this mess, we need to change the way in which Parliaments in these isles respect each other, and collaborate with each other, because at the end of the day, it's not just Westminster who are to decide everything.
There's been a great deal of talk about turning the clock back, hasn't there? But devolution has also happened. There was the referendum we had here in 2011 insisting on legislative powers for Wales. We need to respect the outcome of every referendum, not just the last referendum. Thank you.