Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:33 pm on 28 February 2018.
Can I commend the work of our Chair, Mick Antoniw, his predecessor, Huw Irranca-Davies, and the whole secretariat, particularly the clerk? I think this is an excellent report. It's succinct, and I think it's already had some impact and leverage. But it requires an awful lot of effort to produce something as powerful as that, and to draw some sort of reasoned argument out of the whole range of discussions we had and the opinions that we heard. We were greatly helped by the citizen panel and by the expert panel, and I think we can honestly say that our report was materially affected by both those contributions. And that really should be the way committees work, I think, when we reach out and engage.
I think the consequences of leaving the EU are always going to have profound ramifications for the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom. They're not insuperable problems, but they are definitely challenges. And I think we can be proud in Wales that we've done our bit to face them, and come up with a range of very constructive proposals to make the British constitution both more balanced and stronger. I think, for me, if we do nothing, there is a danger that the greater role for UK governance, especially in terms of policy making in England, over things like the environment, agriculture, and other issues that, at the moment, are part of the EU's policy architecture—that that inadvertent, I think, dominance that's generated in England could close some of the options and the spaces for policy development in Wales and in Scotland, and in Northern Ireland, indeed. And that's the thing that we need to guard against. It may be inadvertent, but if that danger is not faced, and effectively checked, then we will end up with considerable damage being inflicted on the devolved settlement.
I think the resources of Whitehall are always going to be a great benefit, potentially, for the rest of the United Kingdom, for the devolved Governments, but they have to be used in partnership, and they cannot be used to impose agreements that don't have genuine consent, and this has to be at the heart, I think, of developing the frameworks that will be required in the UK, and how they will be run, and how open, accountable and amenable to proper parliamentary scrutiny—all these things will be necessary for good, strong government.
Mick has already addressed the issue of the JMC. Can I say that the JMC will continue to be important, especially in negotiating trade agreements? And I do hope that it will work a bit like the JMCE used to work—that is the JMC Europe. When it was preparing for work in the European councils, it would develop a speaking note, with all the officials from the various parts of the United Kingdom, and sometimes then would permit Ministers from Wales and Scotland to attend, and sometimes to speak, and that's the type of participation and partnership that I think we expect.
In terms of developing the JMC so that it does itself have a function of a ministerial council, or a ministerial council is actually constructed afresh, I think it needs to be properly resourced, it needs to have effective work plans and agendas, and it may have its own officials. And, again, it's going to have to work on the basis of shared governance models, and some form of dispute resolution mechanism, when that is needed, but, overall, have the necessary institutional strength and rigour to allow the type of joint working and partnerships that we will need to be properly constructed.
I think, in terms of inter-governmental working, we do not want to replace the relatively closed system of the EU with a closed system in the UK for shared governance, and Governments can slip into this all too easily. The legislators of the UK will need to thoroughly scrutinise as well.
And this brings me finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, on to the idea of a Speakers' conference. Devolution is approaching its twentieth anniversary. I think this will be an excellent time to look at inter-parliamentary relations, with the Speakers of the United Kingdom—all four of them, I think—getting together, and convening a conference. There's a proud tradition of a Speaker's conference—and that used to be just the Speaker of the House of Commons then, of course—convening a conference to look at major constitutional matters. And so I think this idea has much to commend it, and I do hope that you and the Presiding Officer may find that you're able to advance this particular recommendation, and speak to your colleagues in the other parts of the United Kingdom. Thank you very much.