Item 6 on the agenda is the Children (Secure Accommodation) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018, and I call on the Minister for Children and Social Care to move that motion—Huw Irranca-Davies.

Motion NDM6674 Julie James

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1.  Approves that the draft Children (Secure Accommodation) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 1 February 2018.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion.

The Children (Secure Accommodation) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 amend the regulations on secure accommodation for children that were made in 2015. Secure accommodation forms a small but important part of residential provision for looked-after children. Placements by local authorities are only used where a child is likely to abscond from any other type of placement and is a significant risk of harm to themselves or to others. In each case, the local authority must apply to the court for a secure accommodation order. Now, this should only be done where absolutely necessary and where other alternatives have been considered.

The amendments brought forward today seek to achieve two things. Firstly, there are amendments consequential upon a change to section 25 of the Children Act 1989, which allows local authorities in England and Wales to place children in secure accommodation in Scotland. Now, I should stress that our policy remains that children who need a secure placement should, wherever possible and appropriate, be accommodated within Wales. However, due to the specialist nature of this provision and its short-term nature, placements of Welsh children in England are fairly common, and occasionally, placements are made in Scotland. Although these placements from Wales to Scotland are exceptional, we would still wish this option to be open to Welsh authorities. We consulted on this in the autumn and most responses, including that from the Children's Commissioner for Wales, were supportive of this provision, provided that it was used on an exceptional basis only. 

Secondly, Dirprwy Lywydd, we are making some technical amendments to the 2015 regulations that are aimed principally at ensuring that there is clarity about the way the regulations operate for cross-border placements. These are desirable to guarantee the cross-border application of the regulations, especially in respect of placements from Wales to England and vice versa. In effect, they ensure that the Welsh and the English regulations dovetail together seamlessly and work in the very best interests of children.

I therefore commend these regulations to Members.

It was just to comment, basically, on what you've said already in relation to the exceptional circumstances. We agree with the direction of the regulations, as you say, in dovetailing with England, Wales and Scotland, but I think, for the record, we want to make it clear that it would only be for exceptional circumstances where finding provision in Wales would not be possible. And do you have statistics that you could share with us at some point as to how many children are then moved to Scotland? Because, of course, I'm sure we speak positively of Scotland on many occasions here in this Chamber, especially on these benches, but we want to be assured that, because it's a distance from Wales, they have the support mechanisms in place. However difficult that child may be, they do need those support mechanisms to follow them through when they are moved to that country. So, that was the main point we wanted to make sure that we heard here today.

The Minister to respond.

Bethan, thank you very much for that, and we concur entirely with what you're saying. It needs to be on an exceptional basis. We'd only want secure accommodation used when it is the appropriate option and other things have been ruled out. We'd want secure accommodation used in Wales where it is available, but because of the nature of this, and very often the temporary nature of this specialist accommodation, sometimes we need to extend—in fact, it's not infrequent that we'll extend into England and, very exceptionally, to Scotland. But in that situation, we would expect options to be looked at for returning that child closer to their local environment as soon as possible, but sometimes it's a necessary position.

At the moment, the process of doing that, particularly in Scotland, is highly convoluted. It requires an immense legalistic process to go through. What this will do now is, pursuant to the legal changes that this house is considering this afternoon, actually put in place a much more seamless way of making that effective. But, yes, I agree with you entirely, it should be used on an exceptional basis. The children's commissioner made that clear, we agree with that as well, but it's just making this technical amendment so that it can be done where it needs to be done, when everything else has gone out of the window and everything else has been considered.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.