I agree with many speakers today that criminal justice in England and Wales is a story of regressive and unproductive policies. We would do much better, I'm sure, if we had devolution of responsibility for criminal justice here in Wales. As many have said, we have the highest rate of imprisonment in western Europe in England and Wales—those are Council of Europe annual penal statistics. The percentage of the population—this is per 100,000 of the population—imprisoned in England and Wales is 148.3 compared to 77.4 in Germany, 86.4 in Italy and 98.3 in France. So, if that isn't a matter of different criminal justice policies in those countries, then I would say to David Rowlands: what is it? Are you saying that people—[Interruption.] In a moment. I'm just wondering, are you saying that people in England and Wales are much more criminal minded and criminal in their behaviour and nature than the population of these other countries?