Item 4 on our agenda is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services on the update on the UK inquiry on infected blood. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething. 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm making this statement following the written statement on 8 February this year made by the United Kingdom Government Cabinet Office.

I welcome the appointment of Mr Justice Langstaff as chair of the UK inquiry into the infected blood scandal. As we're all aware, the infected blood scandal of the 1970s and 1980s is a tragedy that should never have happened and must never happen again. Many of those affected in Wales have campaigned long and hard for a meaningful inquiry to take place. Haemophilia Wales and the Assembly cross-party group have worked closely together in supporting all those affected by hepatitis C and/or HIV here in Wales and they're key stakeholders in ensuring that the voices of people affected in Wales are heard. 

I'm pleased to note that, in accordance with the wishes of those affected, the inquiry is to be judge-led. Mr Justice Langstaff will be the full-time chair of the inquiry from 1 May this year, following his retirement from the High Court. However, he has already begun his work in writing last week to those affected, their families and other stakeholders to consult on the inquiry’s terms of reference. The consultation on the inquiry's terms of reference is now live on the inquiry’s website. It is www.infectedbloodinquiry.org.uk, and everyone who has been affected or has a view is encouraged to respond. The closing date for the consultation is the 26 April this year. 

It is important that the inquiry will lead to a full report within the shortest possible timescale, taking into account the need for appropriate care and diligence. There are balances and trade-offs to be made in both the terms and the length of the inquiry.

I have written to Mr Justice Langstaff to reiterate my previous concerns and those of the cross-party group and Haemophilia Wales. I've made it clear that I want those affected in Wales to be certain and feel assured that the inquiry will take full account of their evidence and provide answers to their long-standing questions.

It is our collective expectation that the gathering of information and the hearing of the evidence will take place at suitable locations within each UK country and that the inquiry fully considers any Welsh language requirements in doing so. Many of those affected are elderly and infirm, and travel to London, for example, could be difficult, inconvenient and stressful. I am therefore pleased to hear that he has made contact with all scheme recipients in Wales. I've just received a copy of the letter direct from him as well. My officials and staff from our Wales infected blood service will provide advice and support to the inquiry team to ensure that the needs of those affected in Wales are best met.

While the inquiry takes its course, it is essential that we continue to support those affected. So, it's timely for me to take this opportunity to update Members on the Wales infected blood support scheme, or the WIBSS. Working with our stakeholders, we designed and implemented the WIBSS in November last year. The scheme was administered by Velindre NHS Trust through the NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership.    

Following my attendance at the cross-party group, chaired by my colleague Julie Morgan, I heard first hand the personal stories of those present. This, together with stakeholder events across Wales, proved invaluable in helping to gain a deeper understanding of the impact of the tragedy on people’s lives and, in many cases, of course, their families. That was crucial in influencing the nature and scope of our new arrangements. Our scheme provides assistance over and above financial support to both those affected and their families. Early feedback suggests that this is improving our beneficiaries’ sense of security, quality of life and care and that they are treated with the dignity they have the right to expect.

Through the WIBSS advisers, they're able to receive support in accessing healthcare services and other appropriate financial benefits and public services. We've reduced the need for scheme recipients to apply for discretionary funding by including in the regular payments amounts towards additional expenses, such as increased winter fuel costs, costs associated with travel and any overnight accommodation required when accessing treatment, and help with insurance premiums. That came from listening directly to people affected during the consultation.

The scheme also provides support to those who are bereaved, especially during the early years when distress and financial difficulty are likely to be at their greatest. Now that the scheme is administered in Wales, we should be able to gain a better understanding of the needs of the individuals affected. This will help ensure the arrangements can be kept under regular review.

It was also very clear to me when meeting with individuals and the families of those affected that an inquiry was very important to them. They had been lobbying for many years, individually and through Haemophilia Wales and our own cross-party group, and, indeed, cross-party groups across other Parliaments in the United Kingdom as well, to get to the truth of what happened. I hope that they can now take some comfort that their efforts have paid off and the inquiry they have long fought for is going to happen. I also want to reassure them that I'll be following the inquiry’s progress closely and I'll be seeking assurance that the views of those affected in Wales are being fully taken into account.

I will, of course, update Members further when more information is available and the terms of reference have been agreed.

Cabinet Secretary, thank you very much indeed for bringing forward this statement today. It's very welcome, and I would like to also pay tribute to the campaigners who've worked so hard to bring this inquiry about, and particularly Haemophilia Wales and the cross-party group led by Julie Morgan.

I just have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask you on the back of this statement, because it obviously builds on the topical question that we had last year. I'm so pleased about the Wales infected blood support scheme and what the staff who work for that scheme are able to provide. You may recall that, last year, one of the questions I asked was what support we'll be able to give those who wish to give evidence to the inquiry—will you be able to widen their remit so that WIBSS are also able to support those who go to them in going forward to the inquiry? Because I'm sure that, actually, just the whole business of giving evidence to an inquiry, even though it may be on our home turf here, is going to be quite traumatic and bring up all sorts of dreadful memories. So, I just wondered if they'll be the ones who'll be able to provide that support.

In our joint letter of 19 July 2017 to Jeremy Hunt, a letter that you orchestrated, Cabinet Secretary, we asked what steps would be put in place to ensure that NHS Wales, NHS England and the NHS across the UK will co-operate fully with the inquiry. I just wondered if you'd be able to give us an update on what steps we can take here in Wales to ensure that NHS Wales co-operates in every conceivable way in terms of giving evidence, finding any paper trails that may be in existence, et cetera. I know that Mr Justice Langstaff has only recently been appointed, but are you able to say whether or not he will have the power within this inquiry to compel witnesses to come forward to ensure that there is full disclosure of documentation?

My final point is one that you've raised yourself about it being a timely inquiry. You'll be aware that the Lord Morris of Manchester inquiry took over two years, and I just wonder if you might be able to expand on what would you think is a reasonable length of time, especially as this whole scandal, one of the worst scandals the NHS has ever seen, is over 30 years old, and those affected cannot wait endlessly for time to pass for the justice they so desperately require.

Thank you for all those comments and questions. I'll start with your first one about how people can be supported to give evidence. The Wales infected blood scheme wasn't particularly set up to support people to give evidence to an inquiry, but I do think we need to consider the needs of people who will need to give evidence and where that evidence can be given. What I'd like to see is that the inquiry operates on a basis where it will take evidence across different United Kingdom nations to make it easier for people to attend.

To be fair, I indicated earlier I've had a response from Mr Justice Langstaff to my earlier letter and I think that it's constructive. I think there's an indication there that they will consider how they meet not just the language requirements of people from Wales, but, in particular, ensure how they hear from people in devolved nations, thinking about how they do that whilst going about considering the terms of reference. So, it is—. The letter certainly doesn't close the door in saying, 'No, everyone must travel to a central point,' and I think we need to continue to pursue that. He's also indicated that he would wish to meet the cross-party group in this place, which I think is a very helpful and constructive offer from the chair as well. I hope that the chair of the cross-party group would—I expect—welcome that too. 

So, we need to consider with individuals, but also with Haemophilia Wales, as the largest support group, how best we can work together to support individuals. So, I don't want to cut anything off, but, equally, I don't want to give an open-ended commitment that I may not be able to meet. And, actually, I think the best thing is to make sure that we get the inquiry to move around the country to make it easier for people to attend in the first place.

You referred to the letter that had cross-party sign-off that previously went to Jeremy Hunt. I think that was helpful in reiterating that this is a genuine cross-party attempt to get at the truth. In that, we indicated that NHS Wales co-operated, and that position remains unchanged. I expect NHS Wales to co-operate. If there is any particular issue about information being made available, then I'll certainly consider the ability of the Government to direct information to be made available, but I do not anticipate there being any organisational barriers to documentary evidence being made available. Indeed, that would include documents that the Government held. I think, previously, for example, journalists have been given access to documents that exist that the Government holds and they didn't find anything of particular interest, but the access is there and it is available. And that goes into some of the points about the terms of reference and what is a reasonable timescale.

As far as compelling witnesses is concerned, my understanding is that the judge that has been set up under the inquiry does have the ability to compel witnesses. But the terms of reference and the timescale are linked, because the conversation about what the terms will cover will help to determine what is likely to be a reasonable timescale. And there'll be differences of views. Some people would rather see a short and sharp inquiry that focuses on a couple of issues to get to the truth quickly. After all, this has been going on for a long time and some people may not wish to have a long time of going over history that is painful and difficult. Some people may wish to see an inquiry that concludes within their lifetime. And others will say 'You have to have the fullest inquiry possible, and if that takes a longer period of time, then so be it.' That's why the consultation on the terms really do matter, and in setting out those questions—. You may not have had an opportunity to look at the website, but I think it's very helpfully set out to focus people's minds on what to ask for and why, and it gives people a steer that if it's a more focused inquiry, it can be shorter, but if it's broader, then it will necessarily be longer. So, people need to think about what matters to them most in responding to that consultation, and in helping to draw up the terms of reference. But I think the fact that the inquiry chair starts off with that open-minded approach and asks people what they think is a good marker of the way we should expect the inquiry to be conducted. 

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that statement. I would like to express my gratitude to and admiration of the group of campaigners who have worked so hard over far too long a period in presenting their case with determination and dignity that there should be the inquiry that we are about to see. I’ve got to know many of them through the cross-party group, and I’d like to pay tribute to those individuals who have spoken through their pain, because of what they've had to live through over the past decades. I will name Lynne Kelly specifically for the work that she has done in leading and co-ordinating the campaign. And I’m pleased that you, as Cabinet Secretary, have been able to come to the meeting that perhaps most individuals attended, and where the message was conveyed so clearly that as Cabinet Secretary you could not but join them in their campaign. And I’m pleased that we have been able to take action on a cross-party basis, not only through the cross-party group, but also yourself and us as spokespeople speaking with one voice on the issue.

It’s also worth emphasising that the cross-party group of the Assembly has been determined from the outset, because of the lead provided by the campaigners, that there should be a member of the judiciary—that there should be a judge leading the inquiry. Others didn’t feel that that was crucial, and I’m sure they had very good reasons for taking a different view, but these campaigners were determined, and I was pleased to hear this statement on the appointment of Mr Justice Langstaff.

Two questions. First of all, are you as a Government going to be considering yourselves as stakeholders in the process that is happening now? Because all the stakeholders, including, I hope, the Welsh Government and ourselves as Members of this Parliament, need to try and contribute to the work that will take place through the inquiry, and I would like to know how you will feed in to the work of assisting Mr Justice Langstaff to draw up the remit.

And in terms of that remit, one specific question: do you believe that we should look beyond what happened in the 1970s and 1980s, which is the core of the scandal? Yes, what happened then in terms of infected blood was a scandal, but it has been a scandal in terms of how we haven't got to this point until the year 2018. So, I'd be interested to know how you're going to try and influence the remit as a Government. But once again, we are moving in the right direction and the campaigners in Wales are still working hard and are keeping the pressure on as they seek the solutions that they deserve.

Thank you for the comments and questions. Indeed, I did attend the cross-party group with a large attendance of people recounting their stories. As I indicated in my statement, I also met a number of stakeholders from Haemophilia Wales twice in my office in the discussions that led up to the creation of the Wales infected blood support scheme. So, we really have listened to what people have said, and as I indicated, the scheme that we now have in Wales came from listening to people. We had initial proposals and they changed during the course of that consultation, because we listened and we shifted around the way money would be used in that scheme, because the majority of the individual families affected thought that there was a more appropriate way of prioritising the use of money. So, I think that's important about how the Government expects to behave, how NHS Wales expect to behave and how we also want the inquiry to behave, as well by actively listening to, and then acting on, the views of families. I guess this relates to what I said to Angela Burns about the Government being ready to make sure that information, if it's sought from us, is provided, and that goes too for the national health service in Wales, but also our contribution to the inquiry to try and make sure that the way in which the inquiry is conducted—to make sure that it really does give people real opportunities to take part in providing evidence, and also that we can be a helpful conduit for information that is provided to be understood and as widely disseminated as possible.

But I think it is well worth Members having a look at the consultation document. It's simple, but, I think, important. I think it's very well written, actually, in asking people about how they wish to contribute to the inquiry, and it deals with your particular point about the time period as well, and it asks people over what time period should the inquiry focus. That goes into the length of the timescale of the inquiry. People want to get to the truth of the matter, not just about what happened in the 1970s and the 1980s, but also what then happened when the Government and the national health service—as there was a UK Government at the time; we didn't have devolution at that time—what they knew, or should have known, and what then happened with that knowledge that should have been there, or was there, and whether it was acted on, and what then happened at that time. That's clear, I think: that the inquiry will have to take account of that, and that will obviously lead to an inquiry that isn't going to be done in a period of a few weeks. So, it will take a significant period of time. In the letter to stakeholders, just as Langstaff has set out—even before oral evidence is heard, there will have to be a great deal of work undertaken already, and the need to go through documents and understand what already exists and is available, as well as listening to stakeholders, as well as listening to people like Haemophilia Wales, individuals, and the cross-party groups in the different parliaments and assemblies around the United Kingdom.

From the Welsh Government's point of view, we expect to be consulted formally on the terms of reference. I'm interested in doing the right thing for people here in Wales, which is why, when we've made our interventions on a cross-party basis, or, indeed, the Government writing to the United Kingdom Government, we've done so by listening to people in Wales first as opposed to deciding for people what we think is right for them. We have such an obvious and directly affected group of families and individuals; it must be right that we do our best to be advocates for them and try and make sure we get to the truth of what happened. So, I will listen before the Welsh Government responds formally to the terms of reference. I'd find it useful to hear from the cross-party group and, indeed, from Haemophilia Wales and other interested parties about what they think, and to see the answer given, and the Government, of course, then to provide a comment. And as I said in my initial statement, I am more than happy to update Members on any information we have and about the progress of the inquiry, but I sincerely hope that there are direct contributions, not just at the terms of reference point, but through the life of the inquiry, so that Members are informed directly about timescales and progress.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary, and thank you to the individuals who have suffered and campaigned avidly on this topic.

I welcome the appointment of Mr Justice Langstaff and the fact that he will be a full-time chair of the inquiry. The contaminated blood scandal is one of the darkest periods in the history of our NHS. The fact that people who sought help from the health service were exposed to deadly viruses is shocking enough, but the fact that they've been denied a proper explanation as to how this was allowed to happen is inexcusable. Mr Justice Langstaff clearly intends to right this wrong. He has promised a thorough examination of the evidence behind the major scandal. I also welcome the fact that he has indicated that the process needs to lead to a full report within the shortest timescales that such thoroughness can accommodate. This is very much welcomed. It's disappointing that it has still taken nearly a year to get the inquiry up and running after the Government made the announcements. Victims of the scandal are still dying, and the longer this goes on, the more victims will be denied answers and justice. In fact, in the same time since the inquiry was announced, another 60 victims have sadly passed away. I am grateful that Mr Justice Langstaff acknowledges this and has started the consultation on the terms of reference before he takes up the full-time role on 1 May. I'm also grateful that he's consulting the victims and their families—those like my friend Faye Denny, whose brother has now sadly passed away. That means that Owen Denny will not get the answers or the justice he deserves, but I hope Faye will.

I have just a couple of questions, Cabinet Secretary. We don't know how many others who received contaminated blood contracted an infection but remain undiagnosed. What is the Welsh Government doing to help identify these victims, and have you discussed this with Mr Justice Langstaff? What assistance can the Welsh Government give in publicising the inquiry and facilitating evidence sessions in Wales? What can the Welsh Government do to assist the inquiry in investigating the role of Professor Arthur Bloom and the Cardiff haemophilia centre in exposing haemophiliacs to HIV and hep C? Professor Bloom was well aware of the risks of administering contaminated factor. He said:

'It is therefore very important to find out by studies in human beings to what extent the infectivity of the various concentrates has been reduced. The most clear-cut way of doing this is by administering those concentrates to patients requiring treatment who have not been previously exposed to large pool concentrates.'

He is believed to have experimented on patients at the Cardiff haemophilia centre that now bears his name. Professor Bloom cannot be called to give evidence as he passed away in 1992, but can you assure us that all his notes and records from the centre will be made available to the inquiry?

Thank you once again, Cabinet Secretary. I appreciate all that you are doing to ensure that the victims and their families get both the answers they need and the justice they deserve. Thank you.

Thank you for the comments and the two particular areas of questions. With regard to the Cardiff haemophilia centre and its practice, I reiterate what I said to both Angela Burns and Rhun ap Iorwerth: that any records and information that NHS Wales holds will be made available to the inquiry. There's no attempt to try and hide away from any of this, and it must be for the inquiry and individual stakeholders who will give their evidence to place that in front of the inquiry, and for the inquiry then to reach conclusions.

On the point about undiagnosed victims, given the length of time that would've elapsed from potential exposure, I would expect that it would be fairly unusual for people not to be symptomatic at this point and not to be diagnosed. You can't necessarily avoid the prospect, but given that we're talking about a specific community of people who will have had blood products, I would expect that people would be aware. If others do come forward, then we'll know, but there isn't a particular programme at this point to try and run through and look for undiagnosed victims. That's not a matter I've discussed with Mr Justice Langstaff. I actually think that, given what we know has happened and the number of people affected, we have a significant job of work to do already, and any lessons from this inquiry would equally apply to anyone who comes forward at a later date who may have been affected but undiagnosed from the scandal that took place in the 1970s and the 1980s.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary very much for this statement, which is very welcome. I've been campaigning for a public inquiry for 20 years, and the fact that it's actually happening now is a matter of—you know, I'm so pleased it's happening. And the key thing now is to make sure that something comes out of it, so that it brings an end for all those people who we've listened to so many times in this building, and all the emotion that there's been that makes you realise, really almost with despair, what they've been through. And I thank the Cabinet Secretary for sharing that with the members of the cross-party group, because I think we have been able to work in a truly cross-party way, and it's very good, I think, that the Government and the cross-party group, and Haemophilia Wales—as, I think, Rhun did say in his contribution—have all taken a united stand, and I do think we have been very instrumental in ensuring that it is a statutory inquiry and that it is judge-led, and I certainly do welcome the appointment of Mr Justice Langstaff.

Already it's been mentioned that so many people have died during this period—70 people in Wales—and Haemophilia Wales will be going up to Westminster tomorrow to meet Mr Justice Langstaff to put forward their case. In looking back at the history of Haemophilia Wales, it was actually started in 2003, but in 2010, it had to end because the six founding members had all died, and that has been the history of the people who I've seen during this campaign who have died on the way. But then, of course, it was re-established in 2014 by Lynne Kelly, who has led it inspirationally since, I believe.

So, I think we're at a crucial point and now we've got to do all we can to see that the right things come out of this inquiry. I know that some of the issues that Haemophilia Wales are concerned about—some of these have been touched on already—very concerned about the role of the Welsh Office at the time; the Welsh Blood Transfusion Service; the Chief Medical Officer for Wales; Welsh language considerations, which you've specifically mentioned, must be taken into consideration; the missing documentation; medical records; the misconduct by responsible bodies and organisations; conflicts of interest and commercial interests held by responsible bodies. These are some of the issues that Haemophilia Wales will be raising with the chair, Mr Justice Langstaff.

So, I don't know whether the Cabinet Secretary has got any more to add about how those particular issues will be addressed. I'm pleased that we're going to have another cross-party group on 24 April, when I hope that we will get all the details of what the people who are most affected by this have got to say about how we should move forward in this inquiry. And I'd just like to end, really, by saying I think it's absolutely right that they are the people who should guide and lead us in what we do, and I think, so far, that's happened, and we want that to go on happening while this inquiry goes on.

I completely agree with the point you finished on, Julie Morgan. It must be that we need to listen to and be led by the views of those people directly affected. This is about what has happened with their lives, including the families that have been left behind, as well as what we do in the here and now. The point about the fact that people have already died is well made and understood, and it's something here about thinking about the terms of reference again, and in fact, in his letter to me, Justice Langstaff said he's highly conscious of the need to balance a thorough inquiry against what can be achieved in a reasonable period of time. This is especially important for this inquiry, given the poor health of many of the people affected, and we have to think about that point, actually, putting forward views on the length of time of the inquiry, on the breadth of the terms of reference. But the best way to understand how to balance those is to listen to the people directly affected, and if they would rather have a longer, more thorough inquiry, then that is what I believe we should be asking for. If their view is, though—and there will be variance in this view, as I've said earlier; you can't expect everyone to agree on all aspects of the terms and the length of time. If the alternative view from the majority of our stakeholders here in Wales, the directly affected families, is that they would rather have a sharp, focused inquiry that will take place over a briefer period of time, highlighting a smaller number of issues, clearly that's what we should ask for. But my own fear is that we are likely to have a community that will want to understand the truth. Having fought so long to get to this point, I think they are more likely to ask us to go and ask for a fuller inquiry rather than a shorter and sharper one. And I think that is an entirely reasonable choice to make.

Again, when I say the role of actors here in Wales will be part of this inquiry, we will make available the information that we have and can make available to the inquiry. Part of what the consultation asks—it does ask about the potential risk of commercial conflict in the decision making that took place in the past. So, those areas of inquiry have already been seized on, and the challenge is how those get written into terms of reference in a way where they're meaningful and the inquiry can then pursue, because, of course, anything that isn't within the terms of reference can't then be easily pursued. We'll have to amend the terms by agreeing again with the Minister at a later date, and I think that's difficult. So, we do need to take some care about it.

Again, I'd reiterate to people that the consultation on the terms of reference is something that I would certainly expect the cross-party group to be engaged with, and to provide a submission on. The Government will make a submission to the inquiry as well. The cross-party group you're holding on 24 April—of course, the terms of reference consultation closes on 26 April, so it may be that the cross-party group is able agree a consultation response at its meeting on 24 April. That would appear to be appropriate to do with a full number of people around a table from parties and external stakeholders too.

I reiterate my commitment to continue to be as helpful and positive, from the Government's point of view, to continue to provide information on a regular basis to Members, but in particular, as you've said, Julie Morgan, to make sure that we work alongside people who have done so much to make sure that the inquiry we are now going to have actually took place in the first place.

Thank you. And, finally, Jane Hutt.

I would like to also thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement, and welcome the very positive outcome, after years of campaigning. Indeed, I recall the campaigning starting when I was health Minister all those years back. I've been supporting, as many have, across this Chamber, constituents, and I want to just mention Pat and Tony Summers—supporting them over the years, following the tragic and untimely death, in 2008, of their brilliant son, Paul; and, of course, their dignity through all their grief, but their commitment to supporting justice, not only in terms of their son and his family, but for all of those who have been so tragically affected by this scandal.

I want to particularly thank Julie Morgan, now the Assembly Member for Cardiff North, but formerly Member of Parliament for the constituency, which she served for the past 20 years, because she's chaired the cross-party group on haemophilia and contaminated blood. I think, Rhun ap Iorwerth, you're absolutely right that the expectation was that it should be truly cross-party, and that's how Julie has led it, but with that important outcome, working very closely with Haemophilia Wales.

I'm pleased that Tony Summers is part of the delegation with Haemophilia Wales tomorrow to meet judge Justice Langstaff, who will conduct the inquiry into the infected blood scandal. I do welcome your response today, Cabinet Secretary, that you're aware of the next cross-party group, that you want to consider the feedback, and I would ask you just to confirm again that you will want to meet to hear from that delegation and not wait until the next cross-party group, because I'm sure they will want to update you and write to you. And, certainly, they will be informing Julie Morgan and members of the cross-party group. Can I also thank you for mentioning in your statement all the other parts of the work that's been undertaken by that cross-party group, including the Wales infected blood support scheme? Perhaps you could also say something about how that scheme has supported bereaving relatives as well.

Yes, you're right, it has been a long campaign, thinking back to the days when I was an even younger man—even younger: no grey hairs in my beard—when this place was first created. The campaign has been going on for a very long time. As Julie Morgan indicated, when the founder Members were gone, the campaign had to be restarted. Julie is perfectly right that a number of people have mentioned Lynne Kelly and the work that she has done—again, a good example of someone who has not been afraid to be difficult, from time to time, to make sure that the issue doesn't get forgotten—and the incredible commitment of individuals to make sure that the issue doesn't get forgotten and overtaken by history and no longer matters. A lot of people are still living with what happened, and living with the legacy, directly as individuals, or their families, certainly, as well. I know that most of us, if not all of us, in this room will have constituents who have been affected. I certainly do, and I think that almost everyone in this room would find someone as well. Again, people like Julie Morgan and others who are still in Parliament now will continue to campaign for this issue, and, again, it is a strength that it is a genuine cross-party campaign that has been mounted.

On the meeting with Haemophilia Wales, of course, I expect officials to continue to meet with Lynne Kelly and Haemophilia Wales. I expect to meet them again before the Government responds to the terms of reference of the consultation too. That's consistent with the way that we have tried to behave over a number of years, but in particular since I have been in post. We have tried to make sure that we talk and listen. It doesn't mean that we have always agreed on every single issue, but we've listened. Bereavement support is a good example of an area where we changed original proposals in our scheme to make sure that people recently bereaved receive more support. That was a deliberate choice that we made because there was such a strong and uniform view, including by people who weren't directly affected—they though that that was the right way to try and make sure that the money was prioritised in supporting people. So, supporting people is where we started from on that particular part of the journey. It's the way we ought to continue to behave as we continue to move towards the formal hearings of this inquiry. But, progress to date—and I'm sure we'll look forward to hearing more active progress once Justice Langstaff starts properly, once the terms of reference have been agreed.     

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.