6. What assessment has the First Minister made of the Lobbying (Scotland) Act 2016, and how similar arrangements can be applied in Wales? OAQ51955

Well, I agree with the conclusions of the Standards of Conduct Committee’s report on lobbying that was published in January of this year.

The Lobbying (Scotland) Act 2016 is now in force, so that lobbyists in that country will have to be legally registered. The same is true in Ireland, and there is a register in London, but Wales has the weakest lobbying legislation in these islands because your Government has chosen to do nothing. We now have lobbyists co-ordinating complaints against Assembly Members to damage reputations. Media in London have alleged that lobbyists in Cardiff were involved in the complaints that led to Carl Sargeant being sacked. The leader of the opposition has claimed that lobbyists leaked Carl Sargeant's sacking before he even knew about it. Even Ofcom—a competition regulator had to terminate a contract with Deryn, a Welsh lobbying firm, after it admitted breaking the rules. The public are now asking themselves what on earth—what on earth—is going on in this place. Because, from the outside, it looks a mess. Will you now accept that there is a problem with lobbyists here and move quickly to introduce legislation that will legally register them, so we all know who they are and we all know what they're up to?

Well, none of what the Member has said has any basis in fact at all, but it's a matter for him to talk about whatever he wants to in this Chamber. I wouldn't advise him to do that outside this Chamber, by any stretch of the imagination. But, it's not a matter for Government introduce legislation. It's a matter for the Assembly itself. Let's remind ourselves that the Standards of Conduct Committee conducted an inquiry to consider whether the arrangements for transparency around lobbying were fit for purpose and appropriate to the Assembly. It reported back with five recommendations, which didn't include the establishment of a lobbying register at the present time. That is a matter for the committee itself. It's not right for the Government to introduce legislation such as this. It's a matter for the Assembly, corporately, to consider it, as it has done through the Standards of Conduct Committee.

First Minister, you have made reference to the Standards of Conduct Committee’s inquiry. The committee stated clearly—and I'm quoting here—that they

'firmly believe that Assembly Members should be treated equally with Government Members. The Committee therefore recommends that any future changes made...for Assembly Members should also apply to the Government and the Ministerial Code, and this will be considered as part of the Committee’s work in the future.'

So, do you agree with the view of the committee in relation to the ministerial code, namely that any future changes that apply to Assembly Members should also apply to members of the Government? And if so, how will you as a Government go about ensuring that that does actually occur?

Two things. First of all, the committee itself can’t change the ministerial code, but if there is any change in terms of Assembly Members, then that is a situation that I would have to consider, namely how the ministerial code should change too. 

First Minister, with the new tax-raising powers just days away, and the additional powers this place is set to gain post Brexit, surely it's time to bring in lobbying reform to ensure that our democracy is as open and transparent as possible. Do you agree that this Assembly must act on lobbying reform now to help strengthen public trust in us and how we operate?

Well, I'd argue that the Assembly has already done that. The Standards of Conduct Committee has done that, and it has also said, of course, that it will keep a watching brief on the operation of the Scottish model and review the situation in 2020, with a view to setting out a firm proposal for the sixth Assembly. I do think it's hugely important that, when it comes to the way Members conduct themselves, that is a matter for the whole Assembly and not just for the Government.