The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Julie James.

Item 9 on the agenda this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru debate on the school uniform grant, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the motion. 

Motion NDM6709 Rhun ap Iorwerth

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Calls on the Welsh Government to reinstate the school uniform grant.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move this motion in the name of Plaid Cymru, which regrets the way in which the Welsh Government has scrapped the school uniform grant, because the grant, as we know, has provided crucially important support to many families—those poorest families in Wales—in order to ensure that their children can have an appropriate uniform to attend school. Over the last year alone, 5,500 pupils have been supported under this grant. It is appreciated by local authorities, by schools—we hear stories from the teaching unions as to how individual teachers sometimes have to go into their own pockets to buy items of school uniform for pupils. So, any question as to whether that kind of support is needed is an empty question, to all intents and purposes. And, of course, most importantly, it is appreciated by those parents who find it difficult to make ends meet, and for those children, of course, who are in receipt of free school meals. 

It is a disgrace that a Labour Government, or a Labour-led Government at least, is cutting that crucial support for the poorest and most deprived in our society, and at a time when it is needed as much as ever, if not more so. At a time when the Conservatives in Government in the UK are cutting the welfare budget, and cutting support for the poorest in our society, when living costs are increasing and salaries are shrinking, the last thing we would expect from Labour is this.

And let us put to bed this claim that it has always been the intention to introduce an alternative scheme. Certainly, there was no-one on the Labour backbenches who were aware of that when this news emerged. There was no talk of an alternative proposal when this was first mooted in the media. If it was an intention, well, fine, but shouldn't that alternative proposal have been in place before the current grant was scrapped? That is, we could have avoided all of the confusion and all of the concern among the most vulnerable people and the most needy people in our society.

And the first response of the Welsh Government, of course, when the news emerged, was to say, quite carelessly, if I may say so, that the cost of school uniform had reduced in any case. Well, I and others have seen on the Bevan Foundation website how they described this as a mealy-mouthed justification for a cut that would save a relatively small sum for Government, but, of course, would be of huge cost to those most needy parents. We know that the average cost per annum to pay for secondary school uniform is now £316, according to the Teaching Times, and simultaneously the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates that the working-age families who are poorest and who have children will see their incomes reduced by 20 per cent between 2015 and 2020. So, those poorest families need this support more than ever.

It is not a matter of going to a supermarket to buy the cheapest school uniforms now, of course. An increasing number of schools insist that school uniforms have to be bought branded from specific suppliers. Now, I'm a parent at Ysgol Brynhyfryd in Ruthin, and they went through a process of introducing a new school uniform recently—and I should declare an interest as a parent, I'm sure, in that issue, and I will do so. But at that time, many of the parents argued in the local press that you could buy school trousers that are three-times cheaper from other suppliers. There was a similar story recently in Monmouthshire, and I know that many Members here will be familiar with that story. 

Research by the Children's Society shows that more than 70 per cent of parents say now that they do have to buy some or all of their children's school uniform from a designated supplier. Their analysis demonstrates that parents across Britain could save hundreds of millions of pounds if they were allowed to buy school uniforms from cheaper suppliers. But the Welsh Government's response that school uniform is cheaper anyway by now, I have to say, was insulting, cold-hearted and demonstrated to many of us how out of touch they are with the reality of everyday life.

Now, I share the disappointment, and, indeed, the despondency of the Children's Commissioner for Wales at this decision. It wasn't clear in the Government's budgetary motion, and it hasn't been subject to any sort of public consultation. It was a unilateral decision by Government. Has there been an impact assessment on the rights of children? Has an equality impact assessment been prepared? Has the Government given due regard to the public sector equality duty or the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child? These are all questions that remain unanswered and which should have been answered before the decision reached this point. 

In the meantime, of course, some counties are now saying that they're going to try to step into the breach in certain circumstances, and are looking at where they can make other cuts in current budgets in order to do that. So, something will have to give in those areas. I have spoken to local authorities across north Wales and at least half of them have said that there will be no support available from them as local authorities, and therefore the prospect is very real that that support will not be available in those areas.

And there's a pattern here, if I may say so, there's a pattern emerging: cutting a grant or a budget, there's a response out there on the ground, then they scramble to restore the situation and then there's huge confusion about a quick fix to try to restore the situation. We saw that with the minority ethnic achievement grant, the MEAG—it was scrapped, there was a strong response to that cut, the Welsh Government then found some funding from reserves and cobbled an alternative proposal together, and local authorities are still unclear as to how that will be distributed at a regional level. The same thing is happening again here: they cut the school uniform grant, there's a negative reaction and then they make an announcement, 'Oh no, there's an alternative proposal'—which is pretty vague at the moment—'in train'. But, you're not conning anyone. It's a total shambles. Our poorest families deserve better; our most disadvantaged pupils deserve better and Plaid Cymru insists that the Welsh Government restores the school uniform grant.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, so I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Julie James.

Amendment 1. Julie James

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the Welsh Government’s intention to replace the school uniform grant with a more flexible policy which better suits the needs of disadvantaged learners.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

Thank you. Lynne Neagle.

Thank you. The Cabinet Secretary is well aware of my concerns about the potential loss of this grant, and I'm grateful to her for her engagement on this and for meeting with me about it yesterday. I have no doubt that she is personally deeply committed to supporting our poorest pupils, but on this issue, we need some urgent clarity and assurances.

In the last five years, the school uniform grant has benefited 1,107 pupils in Torfaen—young people whose families would otherwise have struggled to afford school uniform. This year, there are 202 pupils who should be eligible for the grant. We've had assurances about a new scheme, but there remain important unanswered questions about which I would be grateful for a response from the Cabinet Secretary today. Firstly, will the Cabinet Secretary guarantee that every pupil who was eligible for school uniform support under the old scheme will be eligible under the new scheme?

There has been a suggestion that the scheme could be more flexible and fund other school-related activities that families are struggling with. Now, I welcome any extra help for pupils on free school meals, but that help must be additional and not at the cost of existing support for school uniforms. There are too many activities that children from low-income families are excluded from—things like school trips, which is worthy of a debate in its own right here. Back in 2015, the predecessor Children, Young People and Education Committee published our report on our inquiry into educational outcomes for children from low-income households. A recommendation calling for Government to strengthen and clarify guidance for schools on charging for activities related to education was accepted in principle. I believe that it is now time to look again and strengthen that guidance.

I'd like to ask the Cabinet Secretary: what will be the delivery mechanism for this new grant? I would have serious concerns about that money going directly to schools. There is already a well-established delivery mechanism in place through local authorities, which families are familiar with. Families are used to having discussions about the sensitive matter of family incomes with a larger, more anonymous body that is the local authority. I would not want to see families having to go cap in hand to the school office to ensure that their kids have got the uniform they need to attend school. If it is the Cabinet Secretary's contention that schools are better placed to provide this support, then I would like to see the evidence for that and to know precisely what consultation there has been with those families likely to be affected.

I really welcome the indication that the Government has given that they will look at putting the 2011 guidance for governing bodies on school uniform on a statutory basis. It is good guidance, but it is not being implemented. Proper implementation of the guidance will deliver affordable school uniforms for all families. We must ensure that as many generic items that can be bought in supermarkets as possible are used. The guidance currently states that schools should only stipulate basic items that can be bought from retail chains at reasonable costs rather than from one supplier. High-cost items like blazers should be avoided, and logos restricted to one reasonably priced item, but this is just not happening. A quick look at the year 7 uniform list for just one school in Torfaen includes a number of items that can only be bought in one specialist shop: a blazer, £27.50; school tie, £4.50; and the PE kit alone, £44. So, £76 in total for one set, and I know this is replicated in schools across Wales. It is not good enough.

I wanted to conclude by highlighting two wider points about the way we make decisions about resources for our neediest pupils. The first is on the approach to the budget round this year, and this is not just directed at the Cabinet Secretary for Education, but across Government. I believe it has led to the situation and also the controversy around ongoing support for minority ethnic and Gypsy Roma Traveller pupils. I do not believe that the decision to effectively just pass the responsibility for funding to local government without clearly identified and sufficient resource is going to meet the needs of the young people we are trying to benefit. The ring-fenced funding was there for a reason.

Secondly, I would question the processes that have led to these decisions in the first place across Government, in particular, around consultation and the lack of a child rights impact assessment, which applies not just to education, but across Government. We trumpet our record on children's rights in Wales, but I am far from convinced we are doing anything like enough to live up to that commitment and to deliver children's rights as a reality in Wales.

To conclude, we know that universal credit will push thousands more children into poverty. There could not be a worse time to remove support for school uniform grants or to put obstacles in the way of claiming it. Thank you.

I'll keep my remarks brief, Deputy Presiding Officer, because many people have made the points that I wanted to make. But I would just say to the Cabinet Secretary: this is another fine mess you have gotten yourself into. We had hoped, I think, many of us in this Chamber, that you would have learned your lesson in terms of the lack of consultation over the way in which you scrapped the MEAG grant, and this, I'm afraid, is another example, because there has been absolutely no engagement with stakeholders prior to you making this decision to scrap this grant. You've scrambled around looking for an alternative in terms of some provision to hide the embarrassment of the fact that you failed to have this consultation. It may well be that the successor scheme is a better scheme, but you could have announced that at the same time. We all know the reality is you didn't have it up your sleeve to announce because you had to scramble around trying to sort this out after you'd already made the previous decision.

As has already been said, we're in a situation now where many parents are struggling to pay for uniforms. We know that the current guidance that is going out to local authorities and to schools is not being upheld. Nobody's holding schools accountable for the way in which they expect parents to buy their uniforms, and frankly as well we might well encourage people to buy generic products, shirts, trousers, skirts, whatever it might be, from local supermarkets, but the quality of some of those goods is really very, very poor, and it means that they have to be replaced on a more frequent basis. So, those people who were in receipt of this sort of support in the past are even more reliant on it now with those rising costs, and that's why we're supporting the Plaid Cymru motion today.

So I think what I'm looking for is some certainty about this successor scheme from you today. We need to draw a line in the sand in terms of the mess that you've made and try to make sure that the successor scheme is one that works, is one that people aren't embarrassed to access, and is one that is generous enough to make a real difference to the families that might need to access that support. Lynne Neagle is quite right—it's not just about the cost of uniforms these days. Many schools are introducing charges for textbooks, which they've not previously been charging for. Many schools have got curriculum enrichment activities outside of school hours that previously were free, which now people are having to pay for as well. So, we know the pressures that there are in terms of funding, but this is a matter of priority, I think, and the way in which the decision was clearly made on a unilateral basis has not been acceptable at all. I do hope that, with this successor scheme, there will be a wide-ranging consultation with everybody, so that we can get it right, so that we can help to shape it in a way that will make a big difference, which will support those families and those parents who need the support. 

Firstly, I must say that I support Plaid's motion and I agree with them that the grant should be reinstated. However, I do think the grant in some ways treats a symptom rather than the cause. I agree with the chairman of the National Union of Teachers Wales, Neil Foden, when he described a school uniform as eliminating differences between pupils and said undermining it creates divisions. I also agree with him that a school uniform is a way of avoiding social stigma because pupils all look the same.

So, we undoubtedly have a social responsibility to advocate a system of school uniforms and also to make sure that all families can afford them without adversely affecting their living standards. It's therefore a concern that schools are demanding logoed items of school uniform, which are obtainable only from a limited number of suppliers, at a higher cost than parents would see on the high street or online. The high cost of logoed items and blazers doesn't help anyone and all families would benefit from being able to buy cheaper uniforms. 

A monopoly therefore exists that places local authorities and the Labour Government firmly on the side of the producers of the uniform. Why should taxpayers' money be spent on maintaining an artificially high price for children's uniforms when we could effectively open it up to the same price competition there is for most adults' work clothing? 

There have been very sensible suggestions from the Bevan Foundation that sew-on school badges should be an option rather than ready-made items with embroidered logos. Although the Government is said to be encouraging schools to go down this route and to get schools to scrap the requirement for an expensive blazer, some schools are not listening. But how is this Government responding? It is withdrawing the one thing that mitigates the expense of school uniforms for the poorest in society and it's saying nothing about what is being put in its place.

The low-income families of the 5,500 children affected will be right to be confused that a Labour Government that continually says they are on their side is cutting this grant—confused that not only are Labour cutting the grant, but they have given no suggestion of whether, come September, those parents will be poorer because of changes to any new school uniform grant. 

Much as I'm uncomfortable with the trading ethics involved with clothes available in some supermarkets, we must recognise that many people don't have the luxury of choice that others do, and opening up school uniforms to the competitive market is cost saving for the families involved and goes some way to treating the underlying need for the grant in the first place.

It's all very well for the Welsh Government to be saying, 'Don't worry, we'll come up with a new grant', but announcing the removal of the grant before detailing exactly what will replace it means that there will be many parents across Wales right now seriously worried about September, not knowing if or how they will cope with the expense of school uniforms and they will not be at all reassured by a vague, half-hearted response that does nothing to answer their real and significant concerns.

We all know that sometimes people don't claim all that they're entitled to and don't get all the help that they need, either because they're unaware of the help available or they wrongly feel embarrassed to ask. So, making uniforms as low cost as possible is a route that should be pursued in tandem with an effective grant system. So, in conclusion, I support Plaid's motion, but I do believe Welsh Government needs to be far more assertive in its efforts to compel schools to go for lower cost uniform options. Thank you. 

Thank you. I will have to call the Minister at 19:01, so if you can all be quick, we might see how we go. Leanne Wood. 

Five thousand five hundred students benefit from the £700,000 school uniform grant. That's £700,000, which is less than 1/150 of the Welsh Government's budget—half of what your Government spends on pizzas and luxury yacht wear on credit cards, but it's still too much for this Government.

The price of school uniforms was the justification given for scrapping this grant. On average, parents spend £108 on school clothing for primary school children and £126 for secondary school children. When a third of Welsh children live in poverty, benefit cuts continue to fall on the poorest and foodbank use is on the rise, I wonder whether the Cabinet Secretary would like to repeat today her original justification that uniforms are cheap enough for parents to buy—I'd be interested to see.

The Bevan Foundation has called this justification 'mealy-mouthed'. The children's commissioner was surprised and disheartened by the decision and highlighted the strangeness of the decision to withdraw financial support for school uniforms whilst launching a fund for sanitary products, which would benefit the very children that this grant helps—a very strange decision, which came to everyone's attention in the same week as the Government's flagship anti-poverty programme Communities First came to an end with no alternative programme to take its place. The Children's Society has said that this decision will negatively affect the well-being and ability of children to participate fully in school life. Following insurmountable pressure, it seems like the Government will be forced into providing some kind of financial assistance, but how much, by when and how it will work is yet to be revealed. U-turns and policy made up on the hoof will never be a successful strategy for helping the third of Welsh children who are in poverty to succeed.

Today, I want to give the Minister a chance to enlighten us and the hundreds of families who face cuts to this crucial grant. Can we have cast-iron guarantees that a replacement grant will be in place well in advance of the next school term? For that matter, will anyone miss out as a result of this decision? Exactly how much money will be allocated to a new grant, and will there be any changes to eligibility for those who can access it? What mechanism will there be for scrutinising any new grant, and what role will this Assembly play in that process?

Finally, I want to ask the Minister once again: what motivated her to cut this grant in the first place? What impact assessment did she undertake? Who was consulted? And will she reconsider her decision?

Thank you. Can I now call the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Kirsty Williams?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank Plaid Cymru for bringing forward this debate today to give us a chance to discuss how we support families and learners from disadvantaged backgrounds. The leader of Plaid Cymru asked a very relevant question: who was consulted? And I have to say to the leader of Plaid Cymru: if you go back to the budget consultation papers that were published by the Government in October and subsequently at the final budget, you will see in your committee papers and in those budget papers, on the grant tables, this decision, and I'm surprised, as someone who I know takes scrutiny very seriously indeed, that this was not raised, especially given the fact that the party abstained on the budget vote and made no representations that I'm aware of with regard to this. Those documents are in the public domain, Leanne—

Will you take an intervention?

I must make progress, if you don't mind. Despite an austerity agenda—[Interruption.] Despite an austerity agenda that has led to a 5 per cent real-terms cut to Wales's budget, the equivalent to around £900 million less to spend on public services, we continue to prioritise funding to support the most disadvantaged people in society, and it's a bit rich to hear from Llyr, who only a week ago was questioning whether the pupil development grant that sees £93 million invested in the education of our poorest children, whether that should continue, but I have to say that it's even richer to hear from Darren Millar this afternoon about some fake care, when it's his Government's policies at Westminster that are driving families into poverty.

As I have said previously—as I have said previously, I am committed to continuing—

Will you take an intervention?

—to consider what more we can do as a Government in line with increased funding that we're already providing for the pupil development grant and through innovative food and fun schemes, to name just two, because I'm interested in finding every way I can to support the education, the aspiration and the life chances of our most disadvantaged young people.

Now, with regard to the issue of uniform and the costs of uniform, let me outline my intention. In fact, Llyr and Lynne Neagle have made the case for me. At a time of really, really squeezed budgets, we are in fact supporting a really, really expensive way of providing uniform, which was outlined. So, firstly, I am determined to review the guidance that is available for governing bodies on school uniform and appearance policies. This has not been done since 2011, and, whilst there is much good practice, as identified by Lynne Neagle, within that document, it is not on a statutory footing. And, from the evidence that was just given by Lynne and Llyr and many others, it is clear to me that the real way to attack the issue of affordability of uniform—. We need to do something about the costs of uniform, which will benefit not only those families who are eligible for support—[Interruption.]—which will not only help families that are eligible for support under the old grant; actually, that will be a benefit to all families in all parts of Wales, regardless of the stage of education that their children are in. It will also give us an opportunity, by the way, if we revise that guidance and put it onto a statutory footing, to address the issue of gender-neutral uniforms, which I'm also interested in tackling.

With regard to ongoing support for families who might find it difficult to afford a uniform, I am already exploring and developing options for an improved and wider offer to replace the school uniform grant. As the First Minister said last week, for many, the school uniform grant was inflexible. The money could only be used for uniforms and, predominantly, only for Year 7 pupils. I want to see something much more flexible that better suits the needs of disadvantaged learners and families and gives them some more flexibility.

Now, I believe we have a fantastic template and foundation with the PDG, but I am keen to see what more we can do. Lynne, let me reassure you, I am anticipating that we will spend more resource on this new successor grant than we did previously. I do believe, and it is my intention, that families should be able to use that grant to support the costs of school uniform. But, I have to say, we also know that many children and young people from more deprived backgrounds can sometimes find it difficult to access and participate in a range of extracurricular and school-based activities. Many schools go above and beyond and do their very best to take measures to support those children to negate those issues, but it becomes increasingly difficult to do so, especially in senior school. And that impact can be really long-lasting. It's not just missing out on the opportunity to participate in an individual scheme. Off the top of my head, it may be the ability to join the Urdd and go to Llangrannog; it may be the ability to ability to join the Duke of Edinburgh scheme and participate in that. It not only deprives the children of that individual experience, it goes on impacting and putting them at a disadvantage to their better-off counterparts: the inability to put that on a cv, the inability to put it on a college application form, to be able to talk about those experiences and those skills that you've learnt when you're applying for your first part-time job and you're up against somebody who's got all of those experiences to talk about. The injustice goes on and on and on beyond the initial inability to participate in those activities.

Now, this was recognised back in the Government in 2010 when the issue around school uniform and the costs of education were looked at. Children from more deprived backgrounds were disproportionately affected by these issues and I want to do something about it. I want to do something about it. So, Deputy Presiding Officer, my officials will continue to work to replace the scheme, which will be in place for the new academic year in September—[Interruption.]—in September, and I'm very interested to hear suggestions from across the Chamber and to look at the most effective mechanisms by which that can be distributed. I am absolutely determined that we take every opportunity to support children from more disadvantaged backgrounds, not just in the cost of their logoed jumper, but in their ability to participate fully in all aspects of school life.

Can I call on Llyr Gruffydd to briefly reply to the debate?

Well, thank you very much, and I think that's been a really useful debate and that's what these debates should be about. And it's been a lively one and I'm glad that everybody's contributed in the way that they have, and can I thank those who have contributed, particularly Lynne Neagle? You're right, we needed, and we still do need, actually, more clarity and assurances. But it's taken a Plaid Cymru debate to try and tease out some of this information from the Welsh Government—it should have been forthcoming months ago and not this rearguard action now after it's been across the news headlines. And Darren Millar is perfectly right: where has the engagement been on this? Although, you know, maybe you would want to suggest that to Alun Cairns as well, with reference to the previous debate this afternoon.

Now, the Cabinet Secretary tells us that you're going to review the guidance on school uniforms—great, excellent, long overdue, but where have you been? Where have you been until now? Surely, if you're so passionate, and I'm not doubting your commitment, then—.  Well, yes, you can blow and shrug your shoulders, but, if you're so passionate about this, then, come on, we should have been on it before now, I have to say. You say it was in the budget, okay. You say it was in the budget. Well, I'm not sure what that says about Welsh Government transparency, and accountability in terms of the Welsh Government, because—. You assert that it's there, and, okay, we won't quarrel about it, but the Children, Young People and Education Committee didn't see it, the children's commissioner didn't see it, nobody that I've spoken to had seen it, except for yourself as you play your annual game of budget scrutiny charades with Assembly committees. So, maybe next time—[Interruption.] Maybe next time we need more information upfront, more honesty. If you see an issue like this that may come back and bite you, then maybe you should flag it up to us, and maybe you could tell us as well where the replacement funding for this scheme was in the budget as well. 

Can we all calm down so I can listen to the Member? 

Now, I know that Labour Members in this Assembly particularly have been stung by this decision. I'm sure previous Ministers would have come under similar pressures to scrap the school uniforms grant, but they resisted that, of course. They resisted that probably because they knew how sensitive and how key this was to some of the poorest communities that they represent. But, there we are, I suppose that's the kind of compromise that Labour backbenchers have to make for having a Lib-Dem in Government. 

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Thank you. We now move to voting time, and unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung—. Three. Thank you, ring the bell. 

The bell was rung to call Members to the Chamber.