7. What assessment has the Counsel General made of the legal barriers preventing the Welsh Government seeking the devolution of legislative powers relating to welfare and social security? OAQ52097

Members will know that social security is a reserved matter under our devolution settlement. Removal or modification of this reservation would require either an Act of the UK Parliament or an Order in Council. The UK Government would therefore need to agree this change.

I thank you for the response. And as has been the theme of questions today, last week, your Government made a deal with the Conservatives in Westminster, where you essentially agreed with them, and trust them not to interfere in devolved matters on powers returning from Brussels. Yet, time and time again in this Senedd, and elsewhere, Members of the Labour Government have repeatedly declined to press for the case of the devolution of welfare and benefits, on the basis that they do not trust the Tories to fulfil the commitments of any deal that might be arranged to facilitate it. Members of this Government have in the past claimed that the Scottish Government, for example, has not got the administration powers in relation to the devolution of some of their welfare powers, which, of course, we know is not the case because of the fiscal framework. Given the fact that this deal was made last week, why is not possible to do it in relation to welfare?

Can I just make one point clear that, in reference to the agreement, this is an agreement that brings more powers to be exercised in Wales than previously was the case? I don't want this idea to take hold that this is in any way handing back powers or trusting the Conservatives not to seek more powers. The inversion of clause 11, which was achieved by the Welsh Government and the Scottish Government in negotiation with the UK Government, has had the effect of more powers being exercised in the Assembly and by the Welsh Government than was previously the case. So, that is absolutely critical for this discussion. 

As she is aware—and I refer back to the debate that Plaid Cymru brought forward to the Assembly in October of last year, which I participated in before I joined the Government—the approach of the devolution of welfare benefits, which has happened in Scotland, to which she referred to in her question, has, in effect, transferred the financial risk associated with the demand for benefits to the Scottish purse. For Wales, the Government's view is that that would pose a very significant financial risk and, in addition to that, the costs associated with administering the welfare system would take resources away from the delivery of front-line public services. We know that for Scotland the costs have been very significant, including £66 million for administration and a one-off payment of £200 million for implementation. That money is money that should be used on the front line. Our view in the Welsh Government is that we should see a better welfare deal and social security deal for all residents in the UK, and we regard that as an absolutely fundamental approach to social justice, not just in Wales but in all parts of the UK. 

David Rees. [Inaudible.]. No, okay, thank you. Question 8, then—Lee Waters.