5. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport: Ambitions for Great Western and North Wales Main Lines

– in the Senedd at 4:11 pm on 8 May 2018.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:11, 8 May 2018

Item 5 on the agenda is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport, ambitions for Great Western and north Wales main lines, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for the Economy and Transport, Ken Skates. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. 

Following the cancellation of electrification on the Great Western main line between Cardiff and Swansea, the Secretary of State for Transport announced the development of business cases for rail enhancement schemes across Wales, including improvements to the main lines in south and north Wales, enhancements to the line between Wrexham and Bidston, and improvements around Swansea and to Cardiff Central station. This commitment is welcome. I have made it clear to the Secretary of State my expectation that development and delivery now needs to happen at pace to implement early in the next decade improvements for passengers in Wales who are experiencing slow speeds, poor reliability and inadequate network facilities on a daily basis.

Electrification of the Great Western main line is a starting point for future enhancements; it is not the final destination. The next Wales and borders rail services contract—the first to be designed and delivered in Wales—will deliver transformational change to passengers. However, our train services rely on efficient and reliable railway infrastructure to deliver the speeds and capacities that meet the connectivity needs of people in our cities, towns and rural communities.

I have also recently shared my ambitions for the new Great Western franchise with Members and reiterated my expectations for the west coast partnership franchise procurement with the Secretary of State. Back in 1977, it was possible to get from London to Cardiff on the then new high-speed train services in one hour and 45 minutes, 15 minutes shorter than the current fastest journey times. At that time, the service to Manchester from London took 2.5 hours. As a result of the £9 billion west coast main line upgrade in the early 2000s, Manchester is now just two hours and five minutes from London, the same as London to Cardiff, even though Manchester, of course, is 50 km further away. This investment has also allowed journeys from Stafford to London in one hour and 20 minutes—a similar distance to Newport to London, which is 30 minutes slower.

Following the curtailed electrification of the Great Western main line, Cardiff to London journey times will, at best, be one hour and 45 minutes, the same as 30 years ago, and Swansea will still be two hours and 45 minutes. Similarly, the train journey from Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads is slow and infrequent, hindering the development of stronger cross-border economic bonds.

Meanwhile, the UK Government is investing £55 billion in high speed 2 line to further reduce journey times to Manchester to just over one hour and to provide significant improvements in journey times across the midlands, the north of England and Scotland. If the UK Government make the right choices on HS2, particularly around the Crewe hub and proposed service patterns, it will provide significant economic benefit to north Wales.

Connectivity across the south-east of England is being further enhanced by the £15 billion Crossrail scheme and across the north of England through the £3 billion trans-Pennine route programme, while ambitious plans are being developed for Northern Powerhouse rail and Crossrail 2. Whilst these investments will deliver much-needed capacity on the UK rail network, their impact on journey times will be even more significant. Those places being directly served by HS2 will benefit from significantly faster journey times to London, potentially reducing the competitiveness of locations in Wales for inward investment. The UK Government's own figures suggest that HS2 will have a negative impact of up to £200 million per annum on the economy of south Wales.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:15, 8 May 2018

Now, as we look beyond Brexit, Wales's connectivity with Britain's economic hubs and international gateways becomes even more important. We in Wales cannot afford to be sidelined and must develop a positive and compelling case for major transport investment that addresses both our economic ambitions and our broader well-being objectives. We rely on the UK Government to provide funding for enhancements to rail networks in Wales, but we cannot stand in the margins complaining; we need to set out our expectations for the network and be clear about the anticipated social and economic benefits.

As a starting point, we will set out some overarching needs, which include: improving connectivity and reducing journey time between cities in Wales; expanding the city region areas across Wales; growing cross-border economies; enhancing connectivity from Wales to London; improving access to airports; maximising the potential benefits and offset negative consequences of HS2; providing compelling journey choices to users of the congested M4 at Swansea; and meeting trans-European network standards. These requirements have many inter-dependencies. The solutions will include multiple complementary projects. A strategic outline programme case is a way to pull these strands together, ensuring that the economic, geographical and social context within the potential schemes are developed and are consistent and universally understood. I have asked Professor Mark Barry to lead on this, working with my department and Transport for Wales.

Since HS2's impact is different across Wales, Professor Barry will be producing one case for north Wales and another for south Wales, and we will not be neglecting the Cambrian line through mid Wales, which also provides important connectivity within Wales and across the border. This work will inform the individual scheme strategic outline business cases currently being developed by Transport Wales and the Department for Transport, and the purpose of these programme business cases is to establish the need for investment and to articulate high-level outcomes. They will establish an overall vision for the future of the north and south Wales networks that meets the Welsh Government's and, indeed, other key stakeholders' aspirations. They'll also identify and consider options for investment that complement the ongoing work to design and deliver metro systems in north and south Wales.

From this, those options that merit more detailed investigation will be identified and developed through a detailed business case process where we rely on the UK Government to take decisions in the interests of travellers in Wales in order to complement the investment that the Welsh Government is making in improving its own transport infrastructure. At this early stage, no options have been ruled in or ruled out. To determine the most appropriate interventions requires a strategic approach and a long-term plan and one that builds upon Network Rail's route studies, local authorities' and city regions' plans and ambitions, and which also complements the enhancement plans of the Department for Transport and wider UK Government.

We are committed to work with agencies on both sides of the border to deliver an integrated transport system. This means links with our major city regions, between them, and across the border to England, building on my recent meetings with the metro mayors of Manchester and Liverpool, our memorandum of understanding with Transport for the North, our work with Growth Track 360, Merseytravel, Midlands Connect and the West of England Combined Authority. This work is being undertaken using our own WelTAG guidance and will meet UK Government requirements. I want to see an ambitious programme of improvements that deliver a step change for passengers and that, regardless of final deal reached in respect of Britain's exit from the European Union, result in the main lines in north and south Wales developed as trans-European corridors by meeting standards currently applying to them under regulations.

It is my intention, Deputy Presiding Officer, to subject some of the emerging proposals and choices to a public consultation in the second half of this year. We are determined that, in the future, schemes coming forward will be robust, deliverable and based on a sound strategic imperative and economic analysis. I want to see enhancements to the rail network that deliver on the broader objectives I described earlier and, in doing so, provide a firm foundation for the Welsh economy and its future development.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 4:20, 8 May 2018

Can I also thank the Cabinet Secretary for his detailed statement this afternoon? I can agree with much of what the Cabinet Secretary has outlined. It's interesting that he mentioned that journey times in 1977 were actually faster between London and Cardiff than they are today.

With regard to your list of overarching needs, I was pleased to note that you've made reference to access to airports. Particularly, I'm thinking of Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool—all important airports, of course, for mid and north Wales. I'm sure I don't need to tell you, Cabinet Secretary, about that. But it'd be interesting if you could, perhaps, expand on your ambition in that regard. From what I've understood, you've outlined that Mark Barry is going to undertake a strategic outline programme case, and two cases are being proposed, for the north and the south. It would be useful to have some timelines on that for when those cases and reports will be reported to you and when you'll be able to report back to Members. Will this happen before the consultation that you have outlined that will take place later this year? I was pleased to see that you made reference to the Cambrian line and mid Wales not being neglected, but I'd be interested to see if that does sit in your north Wales case or your south Wales case. It's surely got to fit in one or the other.

I'd also like to ask you, Cabinet, Secretary, how your plans dovetail with existing policy documents that the Welsh Government has already published. How, for example, do you intend for your ambitions that you've outlined today to complement the existing economic action plan? And also, how are the proposals that you've outlined today going to directly complement the growth deals, which, of course, have a huge potential to drive forward economic growth right across Wales?

Can you also specifically outline how your ambitions will benefit Welsh commuters based in both urban and rural communities across Wales? Now, it's my view that it is, of course, vital that we build an integrated transport system that can support a host of wider economic and social policy objectives. I don't think you mentioned at all plans for how rail will be integrated with bus services to ensure that improvements will result in benefits for passengers across Wales, so can you give some views on this?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, can you outline how the delivery of these proposals, or your ambitions, will be supported by the two new bodies that have been created to help drive forward the creation of new transport infrastructure in Wales? I don't think you mentioned the national infrastructure commission for Wales in your statement, which I'm surprised about, and if that's the case, perhaps you could just explain some rationale behind that. And with regard to Transport for Wales, I think at one point that you mentioned that Mark Barry will be working with your department and Transport for Wales, so I'm just keen to understand the relationships between Transport for Wales and your department and how they work together. And finally, does the national infrastructure commission for Wales have the resources and support that are required to deliver your ambition?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:24, 8 May 2018

Can I thank the Member for his questions and for welcoming the statement today? I'll deal with the last of the points that you made first, specifically the role that the national infrastructure commission will have. Clearly, the work that I've announced today in this statement is designed to provide, at the earliest stage, compelling reasons for investment to be forthcoming from the Department for Transport. Longer term, the national infrastructure commission and the experts who will sit on that commission will have a role in influencing, informing and scrutinising any proposals from Welsh Government and Transport for Wales.

In terms of Transport for Wales and the role that Mark Barry has in informing the work that Transport for Wales is doing, and where the Department for Transport is concerned, Professor Barry brings expertise that currently complements what Transport for Wales has to offer. It's my view that Professor Barry is able to inform Transport for Wales in an objective way and inform the UK Government's decisions in an objective way by offering us expert views, expert analysis and an evidence-based approach to the projects that should be prioritised in the early stages. I think it's fair to say that there is good complementarity between what I've announced today and the economic action plan. Indeed, if you look at the programme for government, we have a united and connected Wales at the very heart of our desire to drive up prosperity. Equally, the Department for Transport's investment strategy highlights the need to build a stronger, more balanced economy by enhancing productivity and responding to local growth priorities. Both that strategy and 'Prosperity for All' have better connectivity right at the heart of their objectives.

I do believe that the Member is absolutely right in talking about the need to enhance integration of public transport services, particularly in rural areas. Although this statement today does not concern, necessarily, buses, the Member is right to state that the success of trains in the future in serving passenger needs will be dependent on better integration with bus services. It's also important to point out that the success in recent times of the TrawsCymru network should not be underestimated. It's a long-distance network, often connecting communities not served by rail services. It, along with reform of local bus services that will come through legislation and, hopefully, through Welsh Government and local authorities working with the sector, will deliver better integration, not just in terms of timetables, not just in terms of physical infrastructure and hubs, but also in terms of ticketing. That work is being taken forward in parallel with the work that Professor Barry is undertaking in identifying the early projects that require investment.

Regarding mid Wales, it sits within both. Mid Wales is crucially important in connecting the whole of Wales, in ensuring that we deliver at the heart of 'Prosperity for All' a truly united and connected Wales. So, it will be essential that the Cambrian line is considered in all of the work that's undertaken and that we go on working with partners across the border to develop cross-border transport links, both in terms of rail and bus services. It's my expectation that the early work that will be completed by Professor Barry will be with me by July. I've already stated that it's my intention to go out to consultation in the second half of this year, and so I would hope to have his early findings on my desk in the coming two to three months.

I think access to airports is absolutely critical. The Member is right. Liverpool airport—connectivity to it from north Wales will be enhanced through investment in the Halton curve, but there will also be investment through the new franchise in service provision. We've signed the memorandum of understanding with Transport for the North, the aim of which is to ensure that consideration given to transport proposals on the English side of the border respects and reflects passenger needs and individuals' needs in Wales. So, in the future, I would expect better connectivity between north Wales and Manchester Airport to be a key consideration for Transport for the North. Indeed, it's fair to say, given the critical role of Chester station as a major hub serving north Wales, its role in providing transport provision for people living in north Wales will be even more important. So, it's absolutely vital that, in my view, the Department for Transport invests in service provision at Chester station. It requires considerable work, and I think it deserves the investment that Cheshire West and Chester have been calling for for many years.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 4:29, 8 May 2018

What Wales needs, of course, is a national railway. My fear is—and it's really underlined by the fact that we are going to get one business case for north Wales and a separate one for south Wales and then something fuzzy in the middle—that the Welsh Government really is a prisoner of the old map and the old thinking, whereby our infrastructure wasn't actually about moving our people around our communities, it was mostly about moving goods west to east, and, in the coalfield, it was about moving coal south to the ports. We have to reverse that thinking. We have to have a national, integrated vision. And while there were many things in the Cabinet Secretary's long list of overarching needs, which is difficult to disagree with, it's the omission that was glaring. We're a country that is defined by our gaps, the things that aren't there, more than the things that are there. The one thing you didn't talk about—with the exception of connecting cities—is connecting Wales, a country whose railway map is a reverse 'E'. It's a trident that runs across our country, and nothing at the western end, and yet there are ambitious proposals to create a national western link. Indeed, the Government has commissioned itself a feasibility study to reopen the link between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth—nothing about that, at all, in this proposal, in this statement. Shouldn't there be, as part of Mark Barry's work, a commitment to looking at a western seaboard railway link, so that we can actually move from the south to the north of our country by rail without having to go into another country. It's a pretty modest demand, Cabinet Secretary.

Now, you said that we shouldn't be standing in the margins complaining, and I heartily agree with that. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance recently announced that the Welsh Government will soon be able to issue bonds in order to fund infrastructure projects in the future. As part of this overarching analysis, will Professor Barry be looking at the possibility of using bonds, as Transport for London has done very successfully, as Professor Gerry Holtham has suggested, in terms of the cancelled electrification link? Rather than just complaining about those projects that Westminster's refusing to fund, shouldn't we be looking creatively at our own financial means of meeting our own requirements?

Finally, it was, of course, Mark Barry's big idea for reducing journey times between Cardiff and Swansea, shared as part of his vision for the Swansea bay and western Valleys metro, to take the Neath station off the Great Western main line, running that connection, then, instead, along a new direct line from Port Talbot to Swansea. Can I therefore invite you to say clearly whether or not you are ruling out any proposal that would remove Neath from the Great Western main line? Your Counsel General said that he would not support any proposal that included this. He is ruling this idea out. Can you say whether you are ruling this out at this stage, given that it was actually Professor Barry's idea?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:32, 8 May 2018

With regard to that specific point that the Member spoke about last, I can confirm that our position is still that we are not looking at any reductions in services into Wales, or any reductions in station accessibility, and we'll be working with the UK Government and with Network Rail to that end. That includes Neath station.

Now, if we look at how you can improve journey times whilst maintaining stations such as Neath on the main line, you can first of all look at station improvements, you can look at signalling improvements, points improvements—it's a fact of the matter that the trains that are currently operating on the Great Western line have the potential to travel up to 140 mph, but because of poor signalling, poor points and so forth—those factors that I've already identified—and too many level crossings, there's only one point on the entire line that they're able to travel at 125 mph. So, before you even look at the major components of rail infrastructure, you should first look at signalling, points and crossings, in order to improve the speed at which trains can travel. That would reduce journey times between London and Cardiff, and beyond into west Wales, before any consideration would need to be given to the actual track or stations. So, I can say we're not looking at any reductions. We don't just wish to protect stations and services and the provision of services to stations in Wales; we wish to see them enhanced, and that includes to Neath station.

In terms of the promotion of a national railway, I'm not sure whether the Member was referring to a national railway in terms of track and train—a vertically integrated national railway. I think that's what the Member is referring to. The fact is that, at the moment, though, as the Member pointed out, we do not have devolution of responsibility or funding for rail infrastructure. I'd be very concerned about taking forward the idea of using our own money, in whatever way, shape or form it might be, to supplement for historic underfunding of rail infrastructure in Wales. To me, that would be akin to raising a white flag to a Government that has underinvested in our railway infrastructure to the tune of it being only 1 per cent of investment across the UK in the latest control period, in spite of the fact we've got 10 to 11 per cent of track miles. Now, I know that the Member's suggestion for a national railway might look attractive, but is he also proposing, as part of a national railway, given that he's spoken about the need to have connectivity within Wales that does not necessarily have to include connectivity outside of Wales—? Is the Member suggesting that we therefore have new tracks constructed in parallel to the existing network, for example between north and south Wales, in Powys, that actually run in parallel to existing infrastructure? Because I think, actually, for the most part, people are content with the infrastructure that is in place. What people are not content with is the quality of the infrastructure, which is holding back not just the availability of frequent services but also holding back the speed at which trains travel. I think most people in Wales would wish to see investment channelled into the existing infrastructure to ensure that trains travel more frequently and travel faster, whilst at the same time making sure that franchise agreements are in place that drive up the quality of services that run on the track.

The Member suggested that the statement doesn't speak of connecting Wales internally. Well, the whole point of our metro developments in the north, in the south-east and in the south-west is to better connect communities within Wales. These are hugely ambitious. Indeed, the committee that the Member sits on called them heroically ambitious proposals that we're taking forward, and later this month we'll be considering, at Cabinet, the preferred bidder for the next franchise, and the development partner for the metro, which is, as I say, designed to ensure that our communities are better connected within Wales. Also, in terms of better connecting communities, the ambitious proposals that will be consulted on in the coming months, concerning reform of local bus services, will again demonstrate our determination to ensure that, whether it might be rail or buses, active travel or a combination of all, we are investing more heavily than before, and have more ambition than ever before in terms of connecting together our communities in Wales.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 4:37, 8 May 2018

Can I thank the Cabinet Minister for his statement which, in the wake of the Secretary of State for Transport's announcements, updates us on the Welsh Government's ambitions for the Great Western and north Wales main lines? You say, Cabinet Minister, that this commitment is welcomed, but it appears that this announcement simply deals with the development of business cases for rail improvements in Wales. In light of the decision on the Swansea line electrification, and comments made recently on the Swansea bay developments, one has to ask: do these announcements really amount to firm commitments?

It is all too apparent that the UK Government is committed to some mouthwatering improvements to the rail network in England. You mentioned yourself the £15 billion Crossrail investment and the £3 billion trans-Pennine scheme. You also, of course, referred to the vastly expensive high speed 2 project, which is likely to swallow up £55 billion, at least, and, curiously, you point out its possible negative impact on the Welsh economy, which is in sharp contrast to the Welsh Government's view when UKIP debated it in this Chamber, where you maintained, against UKIP analysis, that it would be a great boost to the Welsh economy.

UKIP agrees with the ambitions stated in the overarching needs you lay out, and we will continue to support the Government in its attempts to secure the infrastructure improvements outlined in those needs. But in light of these announcements, is there not a need to have a full debate on Westminster spending on the rail infrastructure in Wales, where cross-party support for Welsh Government demands could be aired, with the effect of strengthening your hand in any negotiations with the UK Government?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:39, 8 May 2018

Can I thank David Rowlands for his questions, and say that I'd very much welcome a cross-party debate on the level of investment from the UK Government in rail infrastructure in recent times? I think that would assist in strengthening our hand at the negotiating table, and ensure that Network Rail and the UK Government recognise that there is demand across all parties in the National Assembly for Wales for fairer funding when it concerns rail transport in Wales. 

In terms of HS2, yes, there is the potential for HS2 to have an adverse impact on the economy of south Wales, and that's why we're arguing that we need to see investment in the south Wales main line come as soon as possible, to ensure that south Wales, and, indeed, this applies to the south-west of England, remain competitive and go on being competitive on a UK and global stage. In north Wales and, potentially, in mid Wales, HS2 offers the opportunity for those regional economies to be significantly strengthened and boosted, but it will require the right outcome, specifically with regard to the Crewe hub, ensuring that there's the right outcome, the right infrastructure in place to the north of Crewe station.

In terms of HS2 as a whole, what I would say is that—and this goes for the regions within Wales as well—what we should not do is argue that we should hold back the prosperity of one region in order to maintain current levels of prosperity for another, whereas actually what we should be arguing for is enhancements across all regions. That's why, again, I clearly state that HS2, whilst it could have an adverse impact on south Wales, if we get the right level of investment into south Wales and the main line into and from south Wales, then the adverse impact could be mitigated. So, my consultation response to the Secretary of State concerning the Great Western Railway franchise clearly stated the need to ensure that there were mitigating proposals that could be adopted that would then guarantee current levels of prosperity for south Wales and ensure that the south Wales economy can prosper in the future. 

In terms of the business cases, the commitment for taking forward business cases rests with the UK Government, but we need to ensure that there are irresistible cases put forward to UK Government. I outlined in my statement how there is significant spend taking place elsewhere in the UK. What I don't want to see happen is for us to just rely on business cases designed elsewhere. What I wish to see happen is for us to influence those cases at the earliest opportunity, and that's why we have experts and that's why we have Transport for Wales working on those cases right now.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 4:42, 8 May 2018

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for setting out the threats and the opportunities that face Wales, and also for appointing Mark Barry, who is a fantastic enthusiast of public transport and therefore, I think, will be a great bonus to setting out our stall. But, clearly, we don't hold all the levers. One of the big concerns of some of my constituents is the rise and rise of rail fares, which far outweighs the rise in wages. For those who need to travel outside Wales for work, it is quite punitive, what is being charged. If it was that the massive price increases were then being reflected in increased investment in carriages and extra Wi-Fi and more trains, that would, I'm sure, be accepted, but the fact is that that's not what is happening.

We do have an enormous challenge in that our UK Government is so south-east England-focused. If they'd started HS2 in Manchester, rather than in the south-east, you might be convinced that they were beginning to look at a transport system that covered the whole of the UK, but, clearly, that's not about to happen.

One of the big issues for my constituents is the necessary upgrading of Cardiff Central station, which is quickly going to have insufficient capacity to manage the increased number of trains that people want us to be delivering. That is something that we can't do unless the UK Government gives GWR or Network Rail money to do something about it. So, I fear it's a good illustration of how dependent we are on the largesse of the UK Government.

I do recall that when Chris Grayling cancelled the Swansea electrification, he immediately started talking about all the things that he might do with the money to go to south-west England, which is just disgraceful. So, we absolutely have to have a fit-for-purpose rail and bus link, and I look forward to the day in which we have these joined up together. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:45, 8 May 2018

I thank Jenny Rathbone for her questions. It's always a pleasure to answer Jenny Rathbone because she has such a keen passion for public transport, in particular the integration of rail and bus services, and of course active travel services. The Member is absolutely right that Professor Barry is a rail heavyweight. We're very pleased that he has agreed to undertake this work, and I'm sure that the work will be carried out apace. I also hope that work on Cardiff Central will now take place at pace. The Secretary of State announced that Cardiff Central improvements would be a priority after the cancellation of the electrification programme beyond Cardiff, and I hope to see that work take place without delay.

In terms of fares, it's a tragic fact that, in parts of Wales, 20 per cent of young people don't even turn up to their job interviews when trying to find work, because they cannot afford public transport to get there. This is in part as a consequence of relatively high fares on rail. It's also in part as a consequence of infrequent and sometimes excessively expensive bus transport as well. The answer, of course, in Wales, as far as the Wales and borders franchise is concerned, is with the new franchise agreement. We set out in our high-level objectives the need for bidders to ensure that their profits would be minimised and that any excess would be reinvested into service provision. It's also absolutely right that we look at maintaining, wherever and whenever possible, the lowest possible fares on rail services, and that's what I hope to be talking about a little more once the Cabinet has considered the outcome of the procurement process.

But equally it's absolutely vital moving forward that a greater degree of integration of rail and bus ticketing takes place. I've seen in parts of the UK—in the Merseyside area in particular—excellent examples of how bus and rail integrated ticketing has acted as an enabler, particularly for young people facing unemployment, in ensuring that they can get into work and stay in work. That's what I wish to see replicated through the new franchise and through additional services in the future being managed by Transport for Wales. That's what I wish to see happen here.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:47, 8 May 2018

Thank you. Can I just gently remind the next set of speakers that you are the second and possibly the third speaker for your party, and therefore it should be a brief statement and a question, and then we'll get you all in? Suzy Davies.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 4:48, 8 May 2018

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. An interesting statement there of 1,200 words, Cabinet Secretary, although it took you until page 3 of your statement to say that you cannot stand in the margins complaining when, actually, you did spend over half your statement, over four minutes of it, complaining about exactly that. I must admit I don't feel hugely better informed about what your plans are, but I am grateful to you for the information regarding the broader objectives for my region, especially looking at alternatives for those heavily polluting parts of the M4 at the same time as expanding, I think it was, the city region's transport—you know that some of us have been talking about that here for some time. You'll also be aware that my constituents in Neath are particularly excited about the offer made by Professor Barry in his original schematic, which I've been reassured is just a starting point.

Briefly, I just wanted to ask you about the omission from your statement of a Swansea parkway. I did a very quick and dirty survey in the area that could benefit from a Swansea parkway, and whereas 89 per cent of respondents thought that would help the city deal, less than 20 per cent of them said that they were happy with the current situation, and more than half of them said they would support the idea of a parkway. When you're continuing to share your ambitions with the Secretary of State, will you be offering in-principle support for a parkway?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:49, 8 May 2018

Yes. We've spoken about this already, and I think that merits a good degree of consideration. I think it's also important just to point out that during the first few minutes of my statement I wasn't complaining, I was simply stating a fact, and the fact is that we have not had the level of investment that we should have expected in the current control period. That said, Swansea parkway, as with some other major proposals, I think should be taken forward at pace.

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour 4:50, 8 May 2018

Cabinet Secretary, one missing link, which has been the subject of a great deal of frustration for quite some time in my area, a missing link in terms of joining up south-east Wales is the Newport to Ebbw Vale passenger rail link. It's long been eagerly awaited and I wonder if you can, in responding to questions on this statement today, provide any further information on when we can expect that link to be established and its continuing importance, I hope, to Welsh Government reflecting the views of local people. 

Also, services to Bristol, Cabinet Secretary, which I know you are aware of, leave much to be desired in terms of overcrowded trains and reliability, problems with cancellation, the general quality of the rolling stock, and indeed the time that journeys take. So, on a whole range of factors as to what makes train travel desirable or otherwise, that service from Newport, Cardiff and other areas to Bristol is problematic, and particularly problematic for commuters. So, given the need to join up around border services between Arriva Trains Wales and the Great Western operation, Cabinet Secretary, I wonder what you can say in terms of comfort to those long-suffering commuters and others that those problems will be addressed, hopefully in the near future, so that they can have a much better experience and we can get more people out of their cars and onto public transport.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:51, 8 May 2018

Can I thank John Griffiths for his questions? Of course, I'll have more to say with regard to the Ebbw link and the potential to stop at Newport when we announce the preferred franchise operator and development partner and when we take forward the metro planning.

With regard to Bristol and connectivity on a cross-border basis, it's my view that we should be encouraging UK Government to work with us in terms of remapping franchise agreements to ensure that a similar agreement is in place on those franchises that are operating and managed by UK Government as there is with the Wales and borders franchise, whereby we are able to influence and we have a role in deliberations at a UK Government level, just as UK Government Ministers will retain an interest in some services as part of the Wales and borders franchise. 

I've set out in my letters to the Secretary of State a proposal for remapping franchise arrangements that would, I believe, (a) meet the needs of passengers in Wales far more than the current arrangements, but also enable the Welsh Government to have a role, the role that it needs to ensure that services are designed and delivered in a way that takes full account of Wales's interest, and which I also think would result in real competition and genuine choice for passengers across the border as well. We wish to see more services between south Wales and the south of England, in particular Bristol Temple Meads, and I think a remapping programme of the franchise would assist in this.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. You referred to the 1 per cent expenditure. The Office of Rail and Road annual report on UK rail industry financial information, published last year, found that Wales actually receives 9.6 per cent of net UK Government funding for franchised train operations and Network Rail, and 6.4 per cent of total net UK Government funding for Network Rail routes, as submitted in evidence to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee after we highlighted similar concerns.

I endorse your statement fully that if the UK Government makes the right choices on the Crewe hub, et cetera, then HS2 will have a significant economic benefit for north Wales. But, my question—I only have one—given your reference in your statement to working with Growth Track 360, which of course I also fully support, you've made no reference to the north Wales growth board, established to finalise the growth deal and manage its delivery once it's agreed with the two Governments. So, what work, in the context of transport connectivity with the rail network, are you undertaking directly with the growth board?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 4:54, 8 May 2018

I've met with the board. I've met at a political level and at an official level with leaders of local authorities and with chief executives. At an official level within Government, we're also engaged on a regular basis insofar as the projects are concerned within the growth deal bid, and it's my view that the ask for the establishment of a transport authority in the north would be very welcome. I look forward to scrutinising precisely what it is that the bid proposes, and with a view to supporting that bid.

What I wish to see happen with the growth deal in north Wales is that in 20 years' time, we can look back and identify that deal as having been transformational for the region. And in order to be truly transformational, I think it must focus on key components that drive productivity and economic growth—investment in skills, investment in transport and infrastructure, and in ensuring that there's the right regional vehicle in place long term to serve economic development in north Wales. On all three of those key components, we're making good progress, but I wish the deal and I wish people proposing all of the projects within the deal to have heroic ambition in this regard.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:56, 8 May 2018

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.