Dame Judith Hackitt's Report

Part of 3. Topical Questions – in the Senedd at 3:44 pm on 23 May 2018.

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Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:44, 23 May 2018

Thank you very much for those questions. You started off by saying that concerns weren't adequately addressed, and it's absolutely right; it seems that the concerns of the residents of Grenfell weren't listened to, and they were raising those concerns over a long period, which is why it's so important that, in the Hackitt review, the voice of residents comes through very strongly as something that needs to be developed. I think in Wales we certainly have good tenant engagement in our social hosing sector, so there's lots that we can learn in terms of how we can develop that. As we know from the debates that we've had over previous legislation, on the Regulation of Registered Social Landlords (Wales) Bill, for example, tenant engagement is something I'm particularly keen to develop, and the Hackitt review tells us why that's really important.

The £400 million was identified by the UK Government from its departmental budgets and it specifically is for the social housing sector, so there won't be any consequential funding to Wales as a result of that. So, equally, we were able to find £3 million from my departmental budget in order to ensure that Newport City Homes was able to replace the category 3 aluminium composite material cladding. We have specifically targeted this funding at that ACM category 3 cladding, which was the cladding that failed the large-scale tests, and we've mirrored the approach that has been undertaken in England.

I have to say that Dame Hackitt did engage very well with the Welsh Government and stakeholders during the production of the report, and the Cabinet Secretary for the environment and I had a briefing from Dame Hackitt the day before the report was published. But it is a matter of regret for us that the report wasn't shared with Welsh Government ahead of its publication. I think that would have been a useful thing to do, given the fact that we are so involved. I appreciate it's a report aimed at the UK Government, but, equally, our contexts are so similar, and our engagement has been so regular, that it would have been appropriate, I think, for us to share it so that we could discuss our respective announcements on the same day and to give residents the kind of reassurance that they need.

In terms of private sector buildings, I do share your concern. Again, as I said in response to David Melding, every building is different, so there'll be issues of responsibility that might be different within each building. There are changes to the building that might have taken place since it was built, for example—who undertook that, what are the warranties and so on? So, there are various issues that will need to be looked at. But I'm very aware that this is a stressful time for residents within the private sector. There are a number of court cases that have been taken forward in England, which might give us some idea of case law, but, again, this is very much on an individual basis for those buildings.

In terms of new builds, I would hope that we will move very quickly in terms of the future of the regulatory regime. The First Minister has asked me to chair an expert panel, which will look to make recommendations to Welsh Government on how we will take this issue forward in future. I wouldn't want to have any delay in that, so I would expect that group to be reporting with the way forward by the end of the year. So, new-build buildings in future, subject to any changes that we would need to make in terms of regulation and so on, would be built to those new standards. 

Equally—the report is very clear that that golden thread for new buildings has to be robust, but, actually, we need to start looking back at existing buildings in terms of the materials used, the changes made to those buildings and even are the buildings what was originally proposed in the design phase. So, I think that there is a lot of work for us to be taking forward, and it will be a lot of work over a long period, but, equally, we'll have to prioritise upfront the issues that are going to make a difference in terms of the safety of residents.