We now move to the short debate—if Members who are leaving the Chamber could do so swiftly and quietly, if you do wish to leave the Chamber, so that we can proceed to the short debate. I call on Neil McEvoy to introduce the short debate.

Thank you, Llywydd. Today, I stand here as a Welshman fighting for democracy here in Wales.

Wales needs a people's Parliament, sovereign and legislating in the Welsh national interest. It's an old concept called democracy. In this debate we have direct democracy in action. I wanted the public out there to decide what should be discussed today, so on social media we asked constituents to tell us what they wanted to talk about. There were a load of interesting comments from constituents, and I'd like to thank all those who took part. George Atkinson spoke of the need for devolved media and policing; Chris Piper wants the Welsh Assembly to have more authority with law and order; Matt Davies and Sue Fortune want to see better transport links in Wales; and Joanne Davies is calling for a ban on non-biodegradable products. All were great suggestions. But the most popular comment came from the Welsh Independence Memes for Angry Welsh Teens—and we have a few of those in here sometimes. They wanted to discuss a sovereign Wales.

So, the title of today's debate is 'A Sovereign Wales: Building the proud, sovereign and united country that Wales can and should be'. I would add today, 'the nation Wales will be'. I'm advised by the research department that there is no record of a formal debate on Welsh sovereignty in this Assembly before. Well, it's about time, isn't it? I'm proud to be the first AM to hold a short debate on Welsh sovereignty, and I'm even more proud that it was the public who put this on the agenda today. Grass-roots activism is fundamental to Welsh democracy, and it's why I'm here.

The great fault-line in Welsh politics today is between those who see Cardiff as our pre-eminent capital city and those who see London as that. I know where I stand. Wales has a great history. We were one of the first countries in Europe to have a civil law system under Hywel Dda as far back as the tenth century. Owain Glyndŵr, the great visionary of the fourteenth and fifteenth century, saw Wales as a country with its place in the world, with a Parliament that he set up well before Parliaments were the norm. During the American revolution, there were more signatories to the declaration of independence from Wales than from any other country. The Rebecca riots down west: on this very day in 1839, the tollgate was destroyed at Efailwen. We had the Merthyr rising and the Chartists in Newport—all Welsh people thirsting for sovereignty.

I'm a sovereignist and I want to live in a sovereign Wales, where we are sovereign as individuals, as communities and as a nation. Sovereignty means bringing governance closer to the people, making Government an engine for the desires and aspirations of the people. Good Government, a good democracy, is a way to channel the ideas and energy of us all. It's not some aloof body that merely dictates to people. Everyone here owns a house, but does anyone here let their next door neighbour manage their budget, keep their salaries, put the money in a bank account that you can't access, not allow you to speak to your neighbours, and to speak to your neighbours on your behalf? Of course this doesn't happen on an individual level, so why do we allow it to happen on a national level?

Wales can stand on its own two feet, but, more than that, we have a duty and responsibility to govern our own country. There are 100 sovereign nations in the world smaller than Wales. Five out of 10 of the wealthiest per capita countries in the world have a population less than Wales. All of the wealthiest per capita countries in the world top 10 have populations under 6 million, and seven countries in the European Union have a smaller population than us in Wales. In Wales, because our economy is bad, our young, talented and economically active people have to leave. They are replaced by older, economically inactive people because Wales is a cheaper, more beautiful place to retire.

The best thing that we can do about this is to become wealthy. A sovereign Welsh Parliament here in Cardiff will enable Wales to become wealthy. Sovereignty is a process that has already begun. We must push on and assume more powers, challenging Westminster. A sovereign Wales could have fair taxation, with a land value tax. We could legislate on radical, fair distribution of land. We could generate income on people coming into Wales with a tourist tax. A truly sovereign Parliament could empower people to create businesses and make sure that business is easy and quick to do in Wales. A minimum income could be seriously considered. We could take care of need and not punish people for being poor.

We are such an entrepreneurial people. The first £1 million deal on the planet was done in Cardiff, just a stone's throw from this Assembly, in the old Coal Exchange. In the past, when our children needed education, we were the first to set up schools—Griffith Jones and his famous circulating schools, which by 1761 had made Wales the most literate country in the world. Workers also established institutes across our nation, with theatres and libraries, and ways of helping each other. And who can forget the success in modern times of Tower colliery—people coming together, working together, taking a chance, and being successful. Tower colliery was doomed to closure until workers took it over as a co-operative, and it made profit for years. No-one is going to change Wales for us; we have to get together and do it ourselves.

The post-Brexit scenario for farming in Wales looks bleak. A sovereign parliament could take a lead by making cannabis a new growth industry. There are so many medicinal uses for the plant, and it’s an emerging industry in many parts of the world. A sovereign Wales could control our own natural resources, and crucially derive income from them. I’ve had enough of seeing our natural resources being plundered and given away. Our water is taken away and sold back to us. Our houses are bought up en masse and rented back to us. It’s time for the circular economy, for localism, with an end to neoliberalism and an end to austerity.

Sovereign Estonia has just introduced free travel for everybody in that country. Why? Because 75 per cent of the population voted for it. Sovereignty brings options. In Wales right now, we don’t even have the power to ensure that our children can travel to school safely, because we're unable to legislate on putting seat belts on service buses. A sovereign Wales would have an independent legal jurisdiction. And in a sovereign Wales, everyone would have a stake, every citizen would have rights and responsibilities, with a radical equality for all. Every state in the USA has a constitution, so why not Wales? The criminal justice system could be based on fairness and rehabilitation—no superprisons, fewer inmates, but toughness when required.

A sovereign Wales could have control over energy policy. We're already more than self-sufficient with electricity. We could invest in renewables, tidal lagoons—not nuclear—and we could export electricity, once again deriving a profit. A sovereign Welsh Parliament could usher in a green revolution with energy, clean energy, costing us pennies every month instead of the small fortune that it does. And that would have the knock-on effect of making our businesses and industries more competitive. A sovereign Wales could reinvent and revive mining, but in a virtual sense, with the mining of digital currencies, making a profit in a new, twenty-first century industry.

Wales has so much potential. We are a strong and resilient nation, and the last 800 years have proved that. In these islands, we need to turn democracy on its head—bottom up instead of top down. We should enable sovereign parliaments in Wales, England and Scotland, with further democracy emerging through those parliaments: democratic renewal from communities up, decentralist in nature. On certain matters, it would make sense for our nations to share sovereignty, but it would be for the people of those nations to decide.

I’ll finish with a story about a bus trip I went on in Iceland, where we were passing some mountains. On the left, I could see them, and the guide picked up a microphone and explained that, in 1935, Iceland was the poorest country in Europe. They were so poor back then that people lived in caves in the mountains that she was pointing at. But then, she explained, in 1944, Iceland became a sovereign country, breaking Danish domination. And she said that, in Iceland then, they had a government making decisions in the interests of the people of Iceland, planning for Iceland and not Denmark. She proudly stated that Iceland is now one of the wealthiest countries in the world per head of population. Now, nobody on that bus thought the woman was a nationalist, and she didn't claim to be. She was a normal woman, wanting the best for her family, for her community and her country, just like all of us do who believe in sovereignty for Wales. Diolch yn fawr. 

I believe you've given a minute of your time to Llyr Gruffydd. 

Diolch yn fawr. I'm grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate, because I believe passionately that the foundations are there for a succesful sovereign nation here in Wales. We've spent the best part of an hour this afternoon discussing how energy rich we are here in Wales. We export electricity. We generate twice as much as we use, yet of course we end up paying more for our own electricity than others do in the UK. Likewise with water; we're a water-rich nation but the water that we export ends up being cheaper for those that use Welsh water than we actually pay for it ourselves. 

We're a nation rich in food as well. Around of 95 per cent of the land surface of Wales is dedicated to food production. We have the climate to maximise that potential, yet we see foodbanks springing up across the country and we see the BMJ warning potentially that the next public health crisis in the UK is going to be child malnutrition—in a food-rich country. Now, what does that tell us about the status quo?

But what, also, does that tell us about the potential we have as a nation? Energy rich, water rich, food rich: the currency of the future. Wars are being fought around this world for those assets, and we have them in abundance, and that means that we can proudly stand up on our own two feet and not have to accept people who tell us that we're too small or too poor.

I call on the leader of the house to reply to the debate. Julie James. 

Diolch, Llywydd. There was much I found that I agreed with in Neil McEvoy's speech, which I frankly wasn't expecting. But he listed a large number of things with which I fundamentally agree also, and much that Llyr just said I also fundmentally agree with. But we do have a fundamental political disagreement around independence. I do not agree that Wales would be better independent. I take the view, as does the Welsh Government, that the devolutionary route inside the United Kingdom, and in my preference, inside Europe, is a better route. But I fundamentally agree with many of the ideas that came forward in the speech, and particularly with Llyr's issues around energy and water.

The Welsh Government's very firm view is that the devolution settlement is a process, and that there is much more to do in terms of what Wales should be able to decide here. But I do think fundamentally that being part of the United Kingdom benefits our economy in fundamental ways, and most of the ways that it benefits our economy are because it has always been redistributive. Wales contributed an enormous amount of its wealth to the success of the United Kingdom, and in particular London and the south-east as the trading capitals over the years, and it's only right and proper, in my view, that much of that success should be redistributed back to Wales when it needs it.

I think that's the fundamental political difference. I don't disagree at all with the issues around energy and water. The Government here is very keen to have the powers necessary to do a lot of really interesting, innovative, socially acceptable things with power and water. Neil McEvoy listed quite a few things that I also agreed with in terms of what we could do in Wales, and I would say, actually, that we're already doing quite a lot of the things that Neil McEvoy lists. I'm sure he won't agree with me on that, but I think that, for example, we've had huge success with inward investment here, and a large amount of that success is because of the speed and rapidity with which we respond to business need—one of the things that you mentioned, for example.

There are a number of other successes that we have had, Llywydd, and I think many of the people in this room now, and the wider Welsh public, would agree with that. But the wider Welsh public has not agreed in previous opinion polls—although I agree it hasn't been put to a referendum—that independence would be beneficial for Wales at this time. I think the devolution approach has been brilliant so far. I was firmly in favour of it when it failed back in the 1970s, which I'm showing my age over, and I was delighted when devolution finally took its rightful place here in Wales with the establishment of the Assembly. The journey so far has been a good one. There are issues with the current devolution settlement that we're all familiar with—the ragged edges around energy, some of the water things that people suggested, some of the issues that Neil McEvoy suggested around travel, for example, and some of the issues where the settlement is difficult to understand for the people of Wales, as to why we can and can't do some things. 

I know, Llywydd, that you're very keen on the justice commission that we're looking at. As everyone knows, the Government has asked that we consider the devolution of criminal justice policy in particular, and I am particularly myself interested in that, because what's been able to be done in Scotland around sentencing policy and rehabilitation of offenders is really interesting. So, when you can come away from some of the sentencing policy the current UK Tory Government has, which I think is highly inadvisable and all the evidence shows doesn't work, and come to a much more socially progressive system, you get a much better result for your people. I'd very much like to see that devolved.

But we do have successful things in terms of foreign policy as well—our successful Wales for Africa programme. For more than a decade now, we've had strong reciprocal relationships with countries throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and the Welsh Government has supported and encouraged people to get involved with links and projects for our Wales for Africa programme. We are very keen to build on that success and not reject that achievement and start again.

We continue to play a significant part in the union of the United Kingdom and we continue to be active participant in the European union of the future. I hope that we can reach a settlement, and Wales has been very instrumental in the negotiations for this, which will allow us to have a good constitutional framework both in the UK and in Europe. It doesn't mean the constitutional status quo is fine. I don't think the constitutional status quo of our existing relationship with the European Union is fine, for example, and that dichotomy that we had, in Europe or out, as if that was the only choice, is one of our difficulties.

I do think that the fact that this debate is framed in that black and white way is a difficult thing. I think it's a more fluid conversation about what sovereignty actually might mean for bottom-up democracy, as Neil McEvoy said. It's not necessarily full independence for each individual country. He mentioned the United States of America and the constitution of the States, but of course they have come together in a federation to give them strength in the world, and that's the devolutionary settlement, the federal federation settlement, that I and the Government would prefer.

We've set out those proposals many times in this Chamber, so I won't rehearse them now, but we will continue to look forward as a successful part of the union of the United Kingdom and we'll focus our attention, our resources and our abilities for the real challenges like Brexit, which we face in the coming years. I don't think we should deflect attention at this stage in talking about the break-up of the United Kingdom. We should be concentrating our efforts on our ability to stay united together inside the European Union, in my personal view.

That brings today's proceedings to a close. 

The meeting ended at 17:42.