4. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on renewable energy projects in South Wales West? OAQ52307

Diolch. The Welsh Government has a strong track record of supporting renewable energy projects in this region. One example, Awel Aman Tawe, has received direct support in excess of £4 million for its first major project. The group is becoming a regionally important local energy company visible at the UK level.

Thank you very much for that response. Naturally, I was going to pursue the tidal lagoon—the much-vaunted tidal lagoon by now, because we are facing further delays on any announcement on the future of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. As you know, we have been waiting since the publication of the Hendry report in January 2017. Now, the question is: have you had any recent discussions with Swansea council and with the tidal lagoon company locally—I’m talking recently now—on any possible way forward? Have you personally had any discussions with any Ministers in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy in Westminster since the Financial Times reported that the tidal lagoon was unlikely to proceed? Finally, have there been any discussions with the UK Government on what needs to be done to make the tidal lagoon a reality? I hear what you say about correspondence between the First Minister and Greg Clark, the relevant Minister, but I do think that, given that this project is so terribly important for us in Swansea, we need to be more proactive than that, and insist that something happens, certainly, if they continue to say the £200 million is still insufficient—then what figure would be sufficient?

In response to the last point, I don't know what the figure that would be acceptable is, but I'm sure Greg Clark will inform the First Minister if that is, indeed, an issue. This is a matter for the UK Government. They are the ones who have delayed and kicked into the long grass the decision around the tidal lagoon. You'll be aware of the Hendry report, and if anybody's read it, it was a very positive report—probably one of the most positive reports I've ever read. So, we have to wait for the UK Government, but this ball is firmly in their court.

I haven't had any discussions myself with Swansea council or with the tidal lagoon company, but I am aware that other ministerial colleagues have. The meeting I've had, which I think is probably the most important one, was a meeting with Claire Perry, the BEIS energy Minister, around a variety of renewable energy sectors. I was able to express concern, for instance, around solar—people are still complaining to me about the feed-in tariff being removed; a very short-sighted, I think, policy decision—and, obviously, we had discussions around both onshore and offshore wind.

Does the Cabinet Secretary think it is fair that the cost of building the first tidal lagoon in the world is being compared to nuclear power provision at Hinkley Point, when the first nuclear power plant at Calder Hall was built in 1956, and where decommissioning and disposal costs are capped, and where, if the actual cost exceeds the cap, the cost is being borne by the Government, i.e. us the taxpayer?

Thank you, Mike Hedges, for that question, and I again repeat: I have to be very careful in what I say about particular projects—I'm very limited, and that, obviously, includes the proposed tidal lagoon for Swansea bay.

I think it's absolutely vital that costs of tidal lagoon power are compared with other technologies on a fair basis—I think you make a very important point—and you have to take into full account the very long life of lagoons, and all other environmental and social effects. The issue of considering the costs, energy outputs and strike price of any energy project is, of course, not a devolved matter, and therefore I think it would be more appropriate for the UK Government, really, to explain the rationale behind the recent comparisons to Hinkley Point C.

In respect of the comments about Calder Hall, again, nuclear policy decommissioning is a reserved matter, so the UK Government would have to explain their views and how they reached those decisions. We've not been party to any detailed discussions with the UK Government and the promoters of tidal lagoon power, for instance, so we don't know how the cost of the lagoon power compares to other options that they are considering.

Well, obviously, I share everyone's frustration about the speed of news coming out on the tidal lagoon. But I think we still need to keep our eye on the ball when it comes to other renewable sources of energy as well. The Stuttgart university of applied sciences recently advised that a combination of renewable energy sources is probably the best approach to reducing emissions in urban areas, and they've found that if you're taking biomass or geothermal into account, it's possible for those urban areas to contribute almost half their own energy from renewables. Welsh Conservatives, as you know, are proposing investing in these mixed renewable energy models, so that by 2030 our major cities can offset their electricity consumption. Will you look at the use of more biomass and geothermal as part of the mixed-energy production model here in Wales now, when we have a chance?

I think it's really important that we keep our eye on a combination of different types of renewable energy, and I mentioned in my opening answer to Dai Lloyd about the Awel Aman Tawe community windfarm. That's wholly owned by the community. It cost £8 million, and I think we put forward half of that—I think it was about £4 million. They're now, again, ahead of schedule in making their repayments back to us. There's also the Gower Regeneration project that you'll be aware of. So, I'm very happy to look at all types of renewable energy, and if we're going to reach the very ambitious targets I set back last year, we need to see that combination.