7. What progress is being made in encouraging positive relations between young people and the police in south Wales? OAQ52317

Welsh Government funding, along with a contribution from the Gwent police and crime commissioner, provides early intervention and diversionary projects for young people in communities.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Over the last few months, Gwent Police have been piloting a groundbreaking scheme with three schools in Newport, where 58 pupils from Millbrook, Pillgwenlly and Ringland primary schools have become members of Mini Police, or Heddlu Bach. The children, with permission, go out to help officers in community events and they start discussions to educate their peers at home, at school, and with their friends. And indeed, today, Pill primary school have been out checking the speed limits in their area. The scheme's a great opportunity to inspire the next generation of police and public servants, and it's having a palpable effect on the children involved, with teachers and parents reporting big changes in many, and it's proving very popular. And this isn't just an opportunity for improvement in police relations; the effect on those children, undoubtedly, is lifelong, promoting good citizenship. Will the Cabinet Secretary look at this excellent practice taking place in Gwent Police, and these schools, and look at what the Welsh Government can do to further extend the reach of projects like this throughout our communities?

Absolutely. Presiding Officer, it's a fantastic project that has been run in Newport there, and I think it's a testament to the creativity of the police force, working with different organisations in the city, to deliver exactly that sort of process. I pay tribute to Gwent Police in the way that they've worked to deliver this. As well meeting the commissioner for south Wales, I met the commissioner for Gwent twice in the last week as well, once in my constituency and once here. The conversations we have are very positive conversations about how we can ensure that the work of the police is integrated into the work of other services, delivering in exactly the way that the Member for Newport West suggests. I would very much like to pay tribute to the work of Gwent Police—the inventiveness, the creativity—but also an approach that embeds the concept of the active citizenship that we were discussing before, and a sense of citizenship and a sense of people in our communities able to take action themselves to improve and to benefit people who live within those communities. It's exactly the sort of initiative that we want to support and sustain into the future.

I wonder whether you could give us some statistics as to what is happening in terms of stop and search of young people here in Wales. The research I’ve seen shows that young people tend to want to break the law or participate in criminal activity because they have been treated poorly by the police because of stop and search. There are also various sectors of society that are more likely to be stopped—Asian or black men, for example—and that makes them feel that they are not part of society, because of the negative attitude that they develop towards the police. So, how can you engender a society where the police and young people feel that they are on the same level, and that you nurture a positive relationship between them, rather than this feeling that the police are constantly against them in many aspects?

I concur with the analysis of the Member for South Wales West, but may I say this? Firstly, policing is not devolved, and so our ability to influence this issue could be impaired on occasion, but I do see that the police are working very hard to reach out to various sectors of society. There are some exceptionally good examples in Gwent Police of that, and I’ve seen great changes in the way in which South Wales Police deal with these issues too. So, I am confident that we have the leadership in place in the police forces to create the ideal that you and I would share. But the point is this: until the police are part of Welsh public service and are devolved, it would be very difficult for us to develop the kind of holistic policies that we need.

Finally, Mark Reckless.

Diolch, Llywydd. In wanting to devolve policing to Wales, does the Cabinet Secretary nonetheless support the continuation of the elected police and crime commissioner model? He rightly here commends Gwent Police and Jeff Cuthbert for this particular scheme, but does he recognise that the elected and accountable nature of that role is crucial for that public engagement?

I see that the role has delivered accountability. I do see that and I think that is important, but we've just been discussing the future of local government as well, and I regret very much the loss of a direct input from local government into policing in Wales. All too often, we talk about the devolution of powers to this place. We're in different places here; I've spent the whole of my adult life campaigning for devolution and the devolution of powers to Wales. But what I don't want to do is to sit here and be responsible for building a unitary state in Wales either. What I want to be able to do is to deliver devolution within Wales, and that means looking creatively at how we can involve local government in exactly some of the decisions that the Member for South Wales East might be referring to. Certainly, in my constituency experience, I know that the police rely very heavily on the work of local councillors and the ability of local councillors to actually deliver some strong messages to the police. So, I hope that when policing is devolved to Wales, we'll be able to have a very good and rich conversation about how we ensure accountability, and I am clear in my own mind that whatever function or structure we deliver, the accountability cannot start and end in this place; it has to be accountability locally as well as accountability nationally.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.