7. Plaid Cymru Debate: School Funding

– in the Senedd on 13 June 2018.

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(Translated)

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Julie James, amendment 2 in the name of Paul Davies, and amendment 3 in the name of Caroline Jones. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 3 will be deselected.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:22, 13 June 2018

The next item on our agenda this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru debate on school funding, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the motion. Llyr.

(Translated)

Motion NDM6739 Rhun ap Iorwerth

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises the funding crisis in Welsh schools.

2. Notes its impact on teacher workloads, staff morale and availability of school resources which, in turn, has a detrimental impact on children’s education.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) bring together key stakeholders in the education system to consider alternative funding models for schools;

b) maximise transparency and minimise bureaucracy in school funding; and

c) ensure that all schools have sufficient funding to deliver a high quality education for all pupils.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 5:22, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I move this motion on school funding in the name of Plaid Cymru. May I say, at the very outset, that I am not blind to the reality of austerity, and you will note that this isn’t a motion that says, ‘Just give more funding to schools’? But neither am I deaf to the warnings coming from the sector that we are reaching a point, after years of cuts and reducing budgets, with costs, of course, often increasing, where it is now unsustainable to continue to provide the level of service that we have come to expect over the years. And, of course, it’s not just me saying that. Each and every one of you, I’m sure, as Assembly Members, will have received correspondence from headteachers, governors, parents, councillors, teaching unions, all saying the same thing. They, of course, are now using the words ‘funding crisis’ openly in this context.

So, what is the reality of funding? Well, we know that school budgets and the per-pupil funding has reduced in real terms over the past years. In this academic year, the education budget in Wales has fallen, from £1.7 billion in 2016-17, to £1.6 billion. According to BBC Cymru Wales, school budgets have reduced by around £370 per pupil in real terms in six years. We know that 10 years ago the average individual school budget per pupil was some £3,500 per annum. In the last financial year, the budget of individual schools, on average per pupil, was £4,234. And, by the way, there was a difference of up to £1,000 between some counties in that figure, which tells us another story about the funding situation, and we might come to that during the course of this debate. But if per-pupil expenditure had risen with inflation, of course, it would be quite a bit higher. Indeed, it would be almost £400 higher per pupil. Therefore, that is a reflection of the real-term cut that we have seen. It's no surprise, therefore, that school budgets have become unstable and that there's a risk that the education of those pupils will suffer unless urgent steps are taken to tackle this funding crisis.

(Translated)

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 5:25, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

Where does this leave us? Well, we know that schools across Wales face a situation where they can't avoid making substantial cuts in order to cope with the financial deficits, and that means, of course, cuts in staffing levels, in resources, in continuing professional development for teachers, and many other aspects of school activities. The teaching unions have drawn our attention to some of these examples. Fewer teachers inevitably will mean that class sizes will increase—something I know that's very close to the heart of the Cabinet Secretary; less individual attention to the learners; an increasing workload for staff, of course, particularly in terms of marking and assessment, and that, in turn—and we will come to this later—leading to greater stress and long-term ill health in many cases.

There is an increasing reliance on support staff rather than qualified teachers. The staff-pupil ratio is worsening, as I mentioned, and it's increasingly challenging to give due attention to each pupil. There's also an increasing reliance on headteachers, particularly in smaller schools. Now, headteachers very often have their own teaching timetable but also have to do additional teaching hours in order to ensure that their staff get their planning, preparation and assessment time, which is statutory, of course. As a result, they don't have the time required by them to manage the school that they should have.

There are also negative impacts on the curriculum specifically, of course. The reduction in the number of contact hours for curricular subjects is an obvious one, teachers often having to teach a broader range of subjects, which, of course, means that then they teach fewer hours in their area of expertise, and subjects, according to some of the unions, disappearing entirely—music, drama, modern foreign languages, vocational subjects—because, very often, one can't justify running a course with a relatively small number of pupils. That has an impact.

We have seen intensification of unnecessary competition, in my opinion, for pupils because of the funding that comes with them, not just between schools, but also between schools and further education colleges in the post-16 sector. There are negative impacts on working conditions too. We see inappropriate use of teachers doing supply in place of their colleagues, where they are in a situation of being under pressure. There is a restructuring of allowances, although those additional responsibilities are still necessary. Staff are agreeing to reduced hours in certain circumstances rather than facing redundancy, and, of course, if they are made redundant, then that redundancy payment is based on the part-time salary. I could go on, of course. 

Naturally, these ongoing threats to jobs creates an atmosphere of fear and anxiety among the profession. It undermines working conditions and causes stress and ill health, as I've mentioned. I've referred to these figures in the past: 90 per cent of teachers now say that they can't manage their workload within their agreed working hours. Estyn says that teachers in Wales work, on average, 50 hours a week, and it's no surprise, therefore, that we have seen the number of working days lost as a result of stress more than double over the past few years to over 50,000 working days per annum.

And the greatest irony in all of this, of course, is that this goes entirely against the Government's own ambition in terms of moving towards the new curriculum—something that we're all eager to see: a curriculum that will be broad, flexible and multidisciplinary—never mind, of course, the Government's desire to promote things like modern foreign languages and STEM subjects, which I mentioned, while we are now struggling to see those parts of the curriculum being delivered as we would want to see. The Government's ambition to provide support to our most vulnerable pupils is also undermined, and to transform the additional learning needs system, and reach the 1 million Welsh speakers too—all of this is being undermined because of the funding situation facing our schools.

Now, these cuts, as we all know, have already had an impact on much of the non-statutory activities—music lessons and so on are raised regularly in this Chamber—but now the cuts are having such an effect that they are a threat to statutory requirements too.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 5:30, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

Now, everyone understands that the situation emerges from the financial settlement that local authorities receive from the Welsh Government, and that the Welsh Government's settlement derives from the settlement from the Westminster Government. But now, of course, the situation has reached a point where the impact on the profession and the pupils alike will be so detrimental that we must consider it to be critical. We must therefore raise our voice against these ongoing cuts, and we must see what we can do to work together more effectively to reduce these detrimental effects on our schools.

So, Plaid Cymru’s motion essentially calls for three things. The time has come for us to bring together all the key stakeholders in the education system in Wales to consider what options there are to, once again, review the way in which schools in Wales are funded. I say that because the second point in the motion, namely that the financial landscape for schools in Wales, as it currently stands, is very complex, multilayered and bureaucratic, and is inconsistent across Wales too. As a result, that isn’t in keeping with a system that is transparent, where one can ensure accountability and hold people to account. I will expand on that a little.

I’ve raised in the past the way in which the Government funds the education system and how the funding reaches schools in many different ways, but mainly through the local authorities, of course. Most of the funding passes through the revenue support grant, the RSG, and some, of course, is provided in grant form for specific purposes, which has been ring-fenced, very often. The Government also provides some funding for the education consortia. Some funding is provided more directly to schools through the grants and other programmes. Then, sixth-form funding happens through a different system again, and I think we start to see how confused and confusing that landscape can be. And then add to that, of course, the fact that you have 22 local authorities, 22 funding formulas, which are different in all counties, and the situation is exacerbated.

There are also inconsistencies to be seen in the Welsh Government’s approach to the way in which funding is targeted to improve educational outcomes. This is something that the education committee has referred to and highlighted on a number of occasions. We recall the way in which the Government scrapped the education improvement grant for learners who are Gypsy, Roma and Travellers, and those from ethnic minorities, and it was mainstreamed into the RSG, claiming that that wasn’t going to lead to the loss of the educational outcomes that the Government wished to ensure when that grant was ring-fenced.

But then, the Cabinet Secretary for Education strongly defends the need for specific funding that is ring-fenced for the PDG, in order to endure educational outcomes for those who qualify for free school meals. Therefore, those two views from the same Government are contradictory, to all intents and purposes, and I think that’s just an example of the inconsistency that we regularly find within the funding regime.

Let me be clear here: Plaid Cymru certainly isn’t calling for the direct funding of schools, in case anyone thinks that that’s my direction of travel in this area. We see a key role for local authorities in all of this as a means of ensuring that there is more co-ordination and coherence. It brings opportunities to share expertise, resources, all of the economies of scale, and all of these other reasons that have been validly outlined in the past, in order to ensure that there is co-ordination at a local level. But I do think there is room to look at a simpler regime that is also more consistent. Local authorities and schools have also been calling, for example, for longer term funding, which would allow them to plan more effectively and to use the funding more efficiently as a result of that, particularly in relation to staffing issues.

I do realise that time is against me. Some stakeholders, including some of the teaching unions, have called for a national funding formula in order to bring an end to that postcode lottery—I mentioned that £1,000 difference earlier—and to provide the same rights to all pupils, as they would put it, and fair funding. That brings us to the third point of the motion: what would represent fair funding? Does the Government have an idea of how much should be spent per pupil in order to ensure that every pupil receives quality education? I don’t know. People often compare England and Wales, and I think that’s a false comparison, but I will respond to some of the other amendments at the end.

The NAHT has said that there needs to be a national inquiry into school funding in order to ensure that sufficient resources are available in the system to enable schools to introduce this exciting agenda of reform that we all want to see. I believe that that would be a good idea. A national inquiry or audit would give us a more honest and a clearer picture of the current situation in all parts of Wales, and it would be a starting point for this national debate that we need to have on school funding in Wales.

As I said, I will deal with the amendments in concluding, having heard all of the contributions. But, as I said at the outset, this isn’t just a debate saying, 'Well, give more money to schools.' I do understand the reality of austerity, but I am also convinced that a time of austerity is the most important time to invest in our young people in order to empower them to build a better, more prosperous future than the one that they have inherited. And if this Government doesn’t prioritise education funding sufficiently, then we will all pay a price for that.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:36, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 3 will be deselected. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Julie James.

(Translated)

Amendment 1—Julie James

Delete all and replace with:

Notes that to support schools and raise standards the Welsh Government is

a) providing an additional £36 m to reduce infant class sizes;

b) supporting the creation of new school business managers to reduce unnecessary workload and allowing heads to focus on school standards;

c)  working with the profession to reduce classroom bureaucracy as well as boosting professional learning;

d) proposing to use the devolution of teachers’ pay and conditions as an opportunity to elevate the status of the teaching profession; and

e) investing over £90m in the Pupil Development Grant to support Wales’ most disadvantaged learners.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I call on Mark Reckless to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Mark Reckless.

(Translated)

Amendment 2—Paul Davies

Insert as new point 3 and renumber accordingly:

Notes that the agreement between the Welsh Government and the UK Government on the Welsh Government’s fiscal framework delivers around £1.20 of funding for Wales for every £1 spent on education in England.

(Translated)

Amendment 2 moved.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 5:36, 13 June 2018

Diolch, Llywydd. I move the amendment in the name of Paul Davies. I also complement Plaid on their motion, with which we agree. I’ll ask them to understand that our only reason for voting otherwise will be to ensure a vote on our own amendment.

The school funding crisis in Wales is severe. NASUWT Wales calculates that there is now a £678 funding gap per pupil between England and Wales. We believe it’s important to note that that is despite the new fiscal framework agreed with Westminster currently delivering £1.20 of Government spending in Wales for every £1 spent in England. Given this apparent disparity, we have to ask what it implies about where education is on the priority list for the Welsh Labour Government. We will be opposing the Government amendment, but it’s important to note that much of the extra funding to which they refer in that amendment was only grudgingly agreed with our sole Liberal Democrat AM to ensure Labour’s continuing hold on power.

I know Labour now run away from anything Tony Blair ever said or did, but I think many of us around this Chamber would appreciate it if they made an exception for 'Education, education, education'. Perhaps if the Cabinet Secretary agrees, she should open discussion with others in this Chamber about how we can make education a higher priority than a new Labour leader would allow.

In practice, what has less funding per pupil meant? Most obviously, it affects standards, and we’ve debated it many times in this Chamber. We’ve fallen further behind England in all three Programme for International Student Assessment scores, and our GCSE A* to C pass rate is the lowest in more than 10 years. We’re also seeing a reduction in choice for pupils. We’ve seen school closures, especially in rural areas, reduce the choice of where children can be educated and increase the distance that they have to travel. Over 10 years, there were 157 maintained school closures, according to a written answer to Darren Millar, and 60 per cent of those were in rural areas.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour

On spending, I realise the Member is new to the Conservative group in the Assembly, but not that long ago, the Conservatives had a pledge to ring-fence health spending in Wales. The consequence would have been a massive cut in education spending. So, it's a little rich for the Member now to give us lectures on health spending levels when we've protected it and grown it.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 5:39, 13 June 2018

Well, the fact is that, overall, there is 20 per cent more spending in Wales and that has been secured under a fiscal construct agreed by the Westminster Government. If you want to compare spending levels in Wales and England, the big difference is—and we heard some of this earlier—that local government does have higher allocations in Wales—I'd question how efficiently that money is used in many local authorities—and then we have seen cuts in the health service that we haven't seen in England in real terms. And then we have this very significant gap in education spending. Labour, you must decide what your priorities are, and if education is less of a priority for you in Wales than it is for the Conservatives in England, and than we would like to make it in Wales, then that is the situation.

We're also seeing reduced choice in post-16 education. In my region of South Wales East the trend is for all post-16 education in a local authority to be provided by one further education institution. I don't criticise particular establishments, but there are many reasons why you might want to attend an A-level specific institution, continue into a school sixth-form or not wish to attend a particular college. Unless students are willing to travel long distances out of their council area for education, that choice is too often being removed from them.

We must not limit the ability of children in Wales to fulfil their potential and to chase their own dreams and ambitions. We need a recognition from Welsh Government that the current levels of funding are not sufficient to maintain an education system on a par with the rest of the UK, let alone a better one to which we would all aspire. We need serious and decisive action now if we are to rescue our creaking education system. It is time the education Secretary looked beyond the Labour benches if she wants to provide it.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:41, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

I call on Michelle Brown to move amendment 3, tabled in the name of Caroline Jones. Michelle Brown.

(Translated)

Amendment 3—Caroline Jones

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to bring together key stakeholders in the education system to consider:

a) the way funding is allocated; and

b) the ways that budgets allocated to local authorities, consortia and schools can be streamlined and simplified to reduce bureaucracy and make more effective use of the overall educational budget.

(Translated)

Amendment 3 moved.

Photo of Michelle Brown Michelle Brown UKIP 5:41, 13 June 2018

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I move our amendment in the name of Caroline Jones.

UKIP believe that it's the people in the education system at all levels who have a better idea of where the waste is and where any incorrect spending priorities are. They're the people who know what changes are needed to release more money for front-line teaching. One of the things that has gone wrong in the Welsh education system is that decisions have been taken at arm's-length from those who really know what's going on. We therefore support much of Plaid's motion, but the reason that we are proposing an amendment, and will vote against Plaid's motion, is that although there's a need to reconsider funding models, we think the people with the pragmatic and most effective solutions are to be found among the people who have to work with those funding models every day. They should be given a wide enough remit so that they have the freedom to think outside the box.

The fact that Plaid mention looking at other funding models suggests to me that they already have a preferred funding model in mind. We agree that a cut in bureaucracy would be a good thing, and obviously we all want a system that's transparent, so neither objective is a new one. But, again, the answers to where cuts in red tape should be made, and how this system can be made more transparent, aren't to be found in this place; they're to be found amongst the stakeholders who are having to work with this system day in, day out, week in, week out.

Labour's amendment is nothing short of an admission that they've got it wrong, saying that they're taking steps to reduce the extra workload they've created, to reduce the classroom bureaucracy that they themselves have increased, and to boost the professional learning that they have let slide for the last 20 years. For that reason, the fact that they are the ones who have let Welsh education sink, they cannot be trusted to know how to fix it when they haven't known how to for the past two decades.

The Labour amendment rehearses a number of steps that have previously been announced, but I would suggest that if these measures were bearing the required fruit, we wouldn't be having this debate now. So, although UKIP are largely supportive of this motion, we have proposed our amendment to make it clear that it is the relevant stakeholders who should be the ones making the recommendations to Welsh Government, rather than Welsh Government bringing in academics—who are very worthy, don't get me wrong, but, again, the answers lie on the front line—to advise them, as in other areas of education policy.

Our amendment proposes that stakeholders be brought together and provides for a wider remit for that work, in the form of considering how budgets can be streamlined and simplified, rather than asking those stakeholders to focus on the particular issues of bureaucracy, to push money away from mysterious management and into tangible teaching. So I'll say again: let the stakeholders give their advice and make their recommendations free from any pet proposal proposed from above. I therefore ask you to support our amendment. Thank you.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 5:44, 13 June 2018

I accept that the Welsh Government has ambitions for the curriculum, the target to reach 1 million Welsh speakers, and a renewal of the system for additional learning needs. I want to see many of these ambitions achieved. Without adequate funding, though, not only will these ambitions not be realised, but the next generation is going to be let down. According to the education front line, including education teaching unions—UCAC, NEU and NAHT—there is a funding crisis in Welsh schools.

I want to focus my comments on three key issues. Firstly, I want to question how the Cabinet Secretary expects any new curriculum to be implemented at the same time as such drastic cuts. I'll move on to highlight the terrible physical state of our schools that this funding squeeze has created. And, finally, I want to illustrate the effect that this funding crisis is having on schools in the Rhondda.

Much of the Government's plans for the curriculum change are to be welcomed, but, with so little funding, I'm not too hopeful for its implementation. We know that there will be fewer teaching hours for some subjects, while some subjects could disappear altogether. Music, drama, foreign languages and vocational subjects are at risk. This is largely due to the difficulties in recruiting specialist teachers and schools not being able to justify running courses with small numbers of pupils. In turn, this leads to fewer options for pupils, particularly at A-level and GCSE, and an even further loss then of specialist staff. Even where such courses are on offer, hours of teaching have often had to be reduced as schools can ill afford to pay for specialist teachers. In order to counteract the cuts, some teachers are being asked to teach a wider range of subjects beyond their level of expertise, and I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary will agree that this is unfair for both teachers and pupils. 

Perhaps the most striking outcome of this funding crisis is the state of school buildings. The Welsh Government's twenty-first century schools programme was meant to deliver futureproof, state-of-the-art schools, with solar panels and all the very best facilities. That ambition has not been realised. Old, inadequate school buildings are unpleasant and sometimes even dangerous places for pupils and staff. Now, I know I don't need to convince the Cabinet Secretary of the positive impact of school buildings, but I briefly want to highlight—[Interruption.] Yes.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:47, 13 June 2018

I thank the Member for taking the intervention. I accept there are schools that are in some of the conditions you're talking about, and they should be on either band A or band B of the twenty-first century schools programme, but do you also accept the fact that there are brand-new schools being built? I've got three comprehensives in my own constituency, plus two new primaries, which are modern, state-of-the-art facilities for our young children.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru

Well, it's fantastic when children have those new schools, but there are still way too many children who are being educated in inadequate and dangerous buildings. A recent UK-wide poll found that 90 per cent of teachers believe that well-built and designed schools improve educational outcomes. So, we have an obligation to ensure that our children are educated in buildings that do not harm their education or their health, regardless of budget constraints.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 5:48, 13 June 2018

I welcome your reference to the Rhondda, and indeed to Rhondda Cynon Taf, but their twenty-first century schools programme will mean, by 2020, they will have invested £0.5 billion in new schools. It is the most phenomenal school building programme in generations. Surely, that's something you very much welcome as transformational to the education system, particularly in Rhondda Cynon Taf.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru

But that won't ensure that every single child is educated in an adequate building, and that is the point that I'm making.

This funding squeeze represents difficult decisions for schools right across Wales, not just in the Rhondda, but I recently wrote to schools in my constituency and I just wanted to note a couple of responses here today.

One Rhondda primary school has had to make cuts of over £15,000, including cutting the school caretaker's hours to save £5,000. That headteacher anticipates further cuts over the next two years. This is a new school, but there is a need for internal painting and new carpets, which can't be afforded. While that school is facing cuts, pupil numbers are increasing.

Treorchy Comprehensive School faces equally difficult decisions—£230,000 has been cut this year, with no corresponding drop in pupil numbers. This would be much worse if they hadn't spent huge amounts of time and effort generating an independent income through staff and volunteers. Further cuts are expected, with the local authority indicating that it will make what it euphemistically calls 'school-based efficiency savings'.

To a certain extent, I do sympathise with the Cabinet Secretary. I recognise that Westminster, through its policy of austerity, has pursued relentless cuts that have seen our funding squeezed, but how much more can our schools take? We cannot afford for the education of our future generations to suffer because of austerity. So, I implore the Cabinet Secretary to look again at these cuts that are being imposed upon our schools and do everything in her power to reverse them.

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this debate. As Members will appreciate, the Children, Young People and Education Committee has taken a very keen interest in funding issues since the time we were established. One of our earliest inquiries was into the decision to amalgamate the funding of the previously ring-fenced grants for minority ethnic learners and Gypsy/Traveller learners into the new education improvement grant and, since the decision was taken in the most recent budget to put that money into the revenue support grant, we have maintained a constant dialogue with the Cabinet Secretary and are continuing to scrutinise the impact of that decision on those groups of learners.

On 4 July, we're going to be debating here the committee's major inquiry into the emotional and mental health of children and young people. The overarching recommendation in that calls for ring-fenced funding to be made available to schools so that they can become hubs of emotional and mental health support for our children and young people, because we recognise that when the system is stretched it will not be possible for our teachers to invest the time and the resource that is needed into that work and also because, as part of the inquiry, it was evident that there is an enormous amount of good practice out there in Wales in terms of supporting young people with their mental health but also that much of that is being funded through things like the pupil deprivation grant. We heard that there were schools that were unable to fulfil that role because they didn't have access to the PDG.

Our most recent inquiry into targeted funding on educational outcomes will be published next week, and the sufficiency of school funding was a very strong theme throughout that inquiry, with lots of evidence being given to the committee that things like the pupil deprivation grant are now being used as a result of pressures on wider school budgets. So, as a result of that, I'm very pleased that the committee has decided that now is the time for us to take a rounder look at school funding. As Llyr and Mark will be aware, we are discussing tomorrow terms of reference for an inquiry—a broad, wide-ranging inquiry—on the sufficiency of school funding in Wales, which I think is very important. I think it's important that that work is undertaken independently of Welsh Government, and I think that our committee will be the right people to do that job.

I do have to take issue with Mark Reckless's contribution. I think it is just a little bit rich for the Welsh Conservatives to come to this Chamber and lecture us on the record of this Government in trying to protect our public services in the face of record-breaking austerity from Westminster. I would suggest, Mark Reckless, that your efforts might be better employed in lecturing those in Westminster who are handing down these ongoing budget cuts to us.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 5:53, 13 June 2018

Would the Member give way? Our efforts have been deployed in getting a fiscal agreement where we are currently getting £1.20 of Government spending in Wales compared to £1 in England. Now, I'll ask her: does she think spending more than £600 less per pupil in Wales than in England is right or something she and her Government are proud of?

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour 5:54, 13 June 2018

Well, I have to say that I don't recognise this largesse that you've described from the Westminster Government, and I also think it's very difficult now to make comparisons between England and Wales on school funding, and that is one of the issues behind why I think this inquiry is so important. We do have to get to the bottom of exactly what is being spent, how much is going into the RSG, how much is actually reaching the coalface for our pupils, because where I completely agree with Leanne Wood is that we do have a very ambitious reform agenda in Wales—not just the new curriculum but also the plans for teacher training, continual professional development, and it's undoubtedly the case that those plans are going to need additional funding. I recognise the commitment that the Cabinet Secretary has to taking forward those plans. This is a matter for the whole Welsh Government. I hope that there will be some lessons learned as we go into the budget round about some of the decisions that were taken to place things into the RSG, which I do not believe have worked in the interests of our most vulnerable pupils this time around. But we do need now that wider look at how we fund our whole education system in Wales—

Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 5:55, 13 June 2018

Will the Member give way? Just on that point, I very much welcome what she's just said about the committee looking at the funding of education. I think the Finance Committee would be interested to look at your conclusions as well. But, on the point she's just made, she will know—because she's written to me as Chair of finance—that her committee asked the right questions about the movement of money within the RSG, but, to be frank, weren't given the right answers in terms of a full, transparent explanation of where that money was going. Is that something that she would look to see now in the new budget round—a much clearer explanation of how this money's being used?

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour 5:56, 13 June 2018

Well, as Simon Thomas is aware, one of the key issues we've raised with the Welsh Government is around the whole transparency of the way that the budget is set out, and I hope that, in the budget round that we will be going into, that will be more transparent and that we will be able to better scrutinise those decisions. I hope, too, that our inquiry will make a big difference, because investment in education is investment in the life chances of our young people, and there is nothing more important than that.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The well-being and education of our pupils in schools across Wales should be at the forefront of our minds in this Assembly. Now, schools in Wales have faced a challenging financial situation for a number of years, and have already made great savings. The leaders and the staff in schools have done their best and made the best of a very difficult situation to safeguard the education and well-being of pupils, but the situation has reached a point where the effect on the profession and on the pupils is so damaging that we have to consider the situation as one of a crisis.

The situation does stem from the financial settlements that local authorities have received from the Welsh Government, which, in turn, arises from the settlement from the Westminster Government. We know that, but the Welsh Government does need to accept responsibility for trying to tackle the crisis facing the field of education today.

In a letter to the Plaid Cymru shadow Cabinet Secretary for Education, the Cabinet Secretary says that it’s local authorities that are responsible for school funding, and that the Welsh Government expects local authorities to ensure that sufficient provision is available for the needs of every learner. In order to ensure that, of course, we also need to ensure that the councils receive sufficient funding. In a report by Wales Public Services 2025, the budgets of councils were considered between 2009-10 and 2016-17. Over this period, there was an increase of 48 per cent on expenditure on health services, and a commitment by the Welsh Government to safeguard funding for schools and social care. In the field of education, there was a specific commitment to increase expenditure on schools over 1 per cent above the change in the Welsh block grant, a block that was shrinking.

There was no commitment to safeguard funding for councils, and by 2016-17 grants from the Welsh Government had decreased 17.1 per cent, a decrease of almost a third of all the expenditure on schools by councils in Wales. Although councils have used council tax and other measures to make up for this in part, there was still £529 million less funding in 2016-17 as compared to 2009-10. This is almost the same as the total funding spent by councils in Wales on social services for older people. As a result, local government expenditure across Wales decreased almost £223 per head, and, despite the efforts of councils in Wales to avoid salami-slicing and to safeguard schools and care, expenditure on school budgets decreased 4.4 per cent, or £254 per head. Funding reserves were used in schools and the reserved funds of schools decreased 41.3 per cent in the period that we’re talking about. This is a clear sign of the financial crisis that’s facing our schools.

According to the same report, the previous Government’s commitment to safeguard budgets for schools made some difference, but there is no such commitment in place from this current Government, and so it’s understandable that unions, the education workforce, parents and pupils are extremely concerned about their schools.

In the short term, the Welsh Government and local authorities need to take steps to ensure that the information that is available to schools is as comprehensive and transparent as possible, that the information is complete, and they need to receive that information as early as possible so that schools know what the budget is going to be. UCAC, for example, has called for the possibility of setting budgets every three years to be considered, and some local authorities are able to plan ahead on that basis.

The Welsh Government also needs to undertake a full review of the financial situation of schools in Wales, along with stakeholders, as a first step towards trying to solve the financial crisis in our schools.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:01, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. On Monday, I had the great privilege of visiting Adamsdown Primary School, just up the road here, in the community of Splott. Thanks to the Welsh Government investment of £2.8 million, pupils and teachers there are benefiting from a new extension to the school and significantly improved outdoor facilities in response to a significant growth in demand for school places in that part of the city. In discussion with the headteacher, Mrs Thomas, and meeting staff and pupils, I was struck by the commitment to high expectations for all learners across what is a transient and diverse pupil population. This included pupils from refugee backgrounds, and I was delighted and moved to meet a young boy from Syria. Paralysed from the waist down, we can only begin to imagine the trauma that that little boy has witnessed in his life. Indeed, when we first arrived at school, he arrived in a pram, not even a proper wheelchair. But, with the English that he has learned, he has told me about how his education at Adamsdown, how the Welsh education system, was pushing him forward and allowing him to set new goals and ambitions. He told me about the new sounds that he was learning that day.

Presiding Officer, no-one in this Chamber needs to tell me how hard our teachers are working day in, day out on behalf of the children and young people of Wales. And no-one needs to tell me that we must battle for every penny to get to that front line in the face of continuing austerity from the Tories in Westminster. And no-one needs to tell me that we do indeed need to bring together all of our partners in a mission to raise standards for all and ensure we continue to properly fund our schools and our teachers.

So, firstly, I'd like to set a few things straight. Collectively, as a Government, we have done our very best to maximise resources going to local authorities, whether that's been in the overall total given to them in the revenue support grant, or in the introduction and implementation of a funding floor to ensure that some local authorities enjoy better protection from cuts than otherwise would be because of the funding formula.

Now, the formula for distributing core funding to local authorities is developed and agreed in consultation with local government through the Partnership Council for Wales and its sub-group. Within this system, there exists the potential to make significant changes to the funding formula, but this must be done with a collective buy-in from local government through the partnership arrangements that we have in place. To date, we have not received a consistent message on this from our local government partners, but we will continue—

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Would you recognise that the minority who receive the least—and there's a funding gap in delegated budgets to schools of over £1,000 per pupil between the best and worst funded—and who suffer the most financially have only a minority voice? Those who benefit clearly aren't going to support because there's a disincentive for them to do so. So, we need to be objective about this and see how effectively the money that does exist is being used fairly and equitably across the whole of Wales to target the needs of all pupils. 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Mark, I know that the Cabinet Secretary for local government is more than happy to discuss with the local government family any changes to the funding formula for overall spending or, indeed, the data that are used to calculate notional spends on education. What you're talking about—that disparity in funding between individual schools—shows the complexity of the Welsh education system and why it would be extremely difficult to find a single national funding formula. How do you find a single funding formula that accounts for the needs of a school in a highly deprived area or a school, like the one in Adamsdown, where the children speak 44 different languages, compared to the challenges of delivering education in a tiny, tiny rural school, where it is inevitable that the cost per pupil in that school is going to be significantly higher than it would be in a larger establishment? I mean, we cannot, Mark—we cannot use these challenging circumstances around funding as an excuse. I know, in my own constituency, the high school that has the best results constantly tells me that because of the system that Powys County Council uses, they're the school that gets the least funding per pupil, but their results, the outcomes for their children, are better than everybody else's.

But I will try to make some progress. We will continue to work with local government, regional consortia and schools to ensure that our shared vision for improving educational outcomes for all learners in Wales is realised. Llyr, I want to give you my assurance that, where there is concern that money is either being held inappropriately at local government level, or being held inappropriately at regional consortia level, then we will go in and we will have a look at exactly how that money is or isn't getting to the front line, and there is a regional consortia at this very moment where we're doing that piece of work so that we can satisfy ourselves that my ambition to get as much resource into individual school budgets is happening.

We are providing more than £187 million over the next two years through the pupil development grant to help our most disadvantaged learning and we will invest £225 million through the education improvement grant. We're also investing £36 million to reduce class sizes, targeted at those areas that will benefit the most, and there are additional teachers being employed throughout Wales to assist us in this aim. Over this Assembly term, we're investing £100 million to raise school standards, and more than half of this investment is prioritised towards improving teaching and learning, because I recognise that our teachers are the single greatest agents of change and improvement in the classroom.

Now, Leanne, quite rightly, in her contribution, talked about the ambitious curriculum reforms that we're undergoing, and, Leanne, we will ensure that, over the next two years, the £20 million is invested specifically in the implementation and preparedness for that curriculum work. I also know that time and funding is taken up by school maintenance issues—indeed, Leanne mentioned these herself in the contribution that she made—as opposed to supporting learners. Now, I want teachers not to be worrying about those leaking roofs, I want them to be thinking about their pupils, about pedagogy and about the curriculum. So, that's why, in March, we made available an extra £14 million allocated directly to schools. This helped address small-scale maintenance issues, relieving pressures on budgets, and every single school across Wales benefited from that money, and it went directly to the front line.

Leanne also talked about the state of our school buildings. Well, Leanne, our twenty first century schools programme represents the largest single investment in building new schools and colleges since the 1960s—£1.4 billion will be invested over band— [Interruption.]

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 6:09, 13 June 2018

I recently wrote to you about a school that I visited where a large lump of concrete fell from the ceiling and landed on the floor, and had those pupils been in school at that time, there could've been a serious injury or even worse. Are you saying that that's not a problem?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Of course, I'm not saying that it's not a problem. I am saying what we are doing about it, and, as I said, we will spend, in band A, £1.4 billion on schools and colleges across Wales. Band B of the programme will see an additional investment of £2.4 billion in schools and colleges across Wales, and that is the single largest investment, as I said, in our school estate since the 1960s. We are working closely with our partners in local government to identify the priorities that they have in their local areas for which schools need to be replaced, refurbished or expanded. If you have concerns about individual schools in your constituency, then I would suggest that you have a conversation with the local authority to ascertain what their plans are to be submitted to this Government, because those plans I have given a commitment to will be funded by this Welsh Government.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 6:10, 13 June 2018

But if they're not prioritising Welsh-medium education, what do you do then?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Well, the Member, from a sedentary position, talks about promoting Welsh-medium education. I'm sure the Member is aware that we have a new fund directly for the expansion of Welsh-medium education places to support the Government's ambition for a million Welsh speakers by 2050. We have a specific fund exactly for that that local authorities are able to bid into, and I am pleased to say we have had significant interest from local authorities in accessing that additional capital funding programme that did not exist a year ago.

The forthcoming devolution of teachers' pay presents us with a real opportunity to do it right and do it well, and I am determined to ensure that Wales is an attractive place to come and teach, and to have a nationwide approach that best suits Wales's needs.

Now, Presiding Officer, I guess that out of courtesy I must turn to the Conservatives' amendment. If they can't even start by recognising that the budget for Wales has been reduced by over £1 billion, then I'm not sure that they've got a leg to stand on. Lee Waters, you are absolutely—[Interruption.] Lee Waters, you are absolutely right—the last time the Conservative group had the courage to publish an alternative budget in this Chamber, they proposed swingeing cuts to the education budget.

Presiding Officer—[Interruption.]

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:12, 13 June 2018

The Cabinet Secretary is out of time, so I don't think there's time for interventions.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Presiding Officer, I do recognise, even with the additional resources that we are making available, that schools' budgets are stretched. I understand that. It means tough choices to ensure that funding does indeed get to the front line, and I will continue to work closely with heads, teachers, the unions, the regional consortia and local authorities to ensure that we're focused on raising standards for every single pupil in every single school, and I welcome the attention that the children and young people's committee is giving to this issue. Indeed, although we have not heard directly from Plaid Cymru today what their actual proposal would be for an alternative model, I note that Llyr has ruled out direct funding of schools, so it's not that model they're in favour of. But I am happy to work with people across the Chamber to look to see how we can collectively prioritise the needs of the children of our nation. Through that collective endeavour, we will set high expectations, we will reduce the attainment gap and we will deliver an education system that is a source of national pride and enjoys public confidence.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:13, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I've been told I have 90 seconds to close, so apologies for not being able to respond to all the points made, but I will start by thanking everyone who has contributed to this debate.

I do need to respond to the amendments, so I will do that. We will not be supporting the Welsh Government amendment. In true Welsh Government form, it starts with, 'Delete all,' so that's as far as I go, really, when it comes to reading your amendments. But what your amendment does, actually, is list a whole host of additional funds and schemes that you've put in place. Many of them are very positive, don't get me wrong, but I think it rather illustrates the point that we're trying to make here. It underlines the fact that if core budgets were sufficient, then we wouldn't need an extra pot for class sizes, we wouldn't need an extra pot for this, that and the other. So, I feel that the Welsh Government amendment rather makes our point for us.

The Conservative amendment—well, comparing Wales to England is, in this context, I think, caveman economics, because you're not comparing like for like. Let's not forget, it's the Tory austerity agenda that's driving school funding down this cul-de-sac in the first place. For you to come here and try and tell us that the situation is very different in England—well, I'll tell you something: I was reading a few weeks ago that schools in England are now closing early on a Friday to cut costs. So, we won't take any lessons from the Tories on what they're doing in England.

Again, UKIP want to delete the substantive part of our motion, so we won't be supporting them.

The bottom line here, of course, is that the current school funding climate is unsustainable. Budgets are reducing, costs are increasing, and the cuts are cranking up the pressure on an already struggling workforce. So, what do we do? Do we wait until we see the impact of that on the education of our children, or do we act now and properly fund our schools to give the next generation the start in life that they all deserve? I hope you all support the Plaid Cymru motion.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:15, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting, therefore, until voting time.

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:15, 13 June 2018

(Translated)

Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move directly to voting time.