Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:37 pm on 10 July 2018.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:37, 10 July 2018

(Translated)

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the UKIP group, Caroline Jones.

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, the UK Government is in turmoil and apparently determined to make such a complete hash of Brexit that we have no choice but to remain in the European Union, despite the wishes of UK voters. David Cameron abandoned the UK, unwilling to carry out the democratic wishes of the electorate. Theresa May has bungled every negotiation with the EU, and senior Tory Ministers are more interested in looking at their leadership chances than the fate of our country. And this has now all reached a crescendo, with a plan for Brexit that doesn't deliver Brexit. The Chequers proposals mean that we continue to be subject to EU laws, unable to alter or influence them, and we would be unable to conduct independent trade policies, hampering our ability to negotiate trade deals outside the EU. This would leave us subject to EU and European Court of Justice rules and we would be forced to take rules that benefit our continental competitors. This is not what I voted for and not what the majority of UK voters voted for. Out means out. First Minister, do you support the position taken by the Chequers agreement, or do you agree with me that it's such a shambolic deal that it's back to the drawing board?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:39, 10 July 2018

I don't agree with either. I think what we need is a sensible solution that sees us staying in the customs union, with full and unfettered access to the single market. And, above all else, she is right—the UK Government is in turmoil. That's why we need a Labour Government in Whitehall.

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP

First Minister, unfortunately, the Labour Party position is confusing. The Labour MP for Aberavon strongly believes Labour should commit wholeheartedly to a Brexit model that would see the UK continue to make financial contributions to the EU and accept many of its laws. The Labour leader in Westminster clearly isn't sure what he wants—one day, it is we need to remain in the single market and the customs union, and the next it's to obtain a tariff-free trade relationship with Europe and that we develop a customs union to go alongside that. The shadow Cabinet has more resignations than appointments, and the shadow Brexit Secretary is now calling for a second Brexit referendum, seemingly influenced by key members of the Unite union. First Minister, what is your party's position on Brexit? Is it the position that you outlined with the leader of Plaid Cymru? Is that what it is? Or, is your stance the Labour Party's stance, please?

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP

Back again, is it? No answer. Okay. [Interruption.] Sorry?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour

The former—what we agreed with Plaid Cymru.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

He did answer, and say—

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP

With Plaid Cymru. Thank you. Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Thank you, First Minister.

I note that your Government has today outlined proposals for farm subsidies should we ever leave the EU, and I welcome the proposals, which, according to the RSPB, signal a new way of working. The common agricultural policy has pitted conservationists and farmers against one another in the battle for land, so this will end this approach. According to your Cabinet Secretary, Brexit presents a unique opportunity to put in place bespoke Welsh policy that delivers for our economy, society and natural environment, and I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

So, First Minister, we are clearly not going to be able to influence the Brexit negotiations with the UK Government, which will simply ignore our views, but we can seek to capitalise on the opportunities presented by our exit from the EU: so, bespoke agriculture and conservation policies, bespoke fisheries policies and bespoke trade policies. So, First Minister, do you agree that it's now time to focus on the opportunities ahead of us and open to us, rather than playing up the risks? After all, we were supposed to be in a deep recession by now. Instead, business investment is booming, which should go some way to giving positive vibes to potential investors. So, how will you encourage investment into Wales, please?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:42, 10 July 2018

Well, first of all, it is quite clear that many businesses are concerned about the prospect of a hard Brexit. We've heard Airbus say it, we've heard JLR say it, and heard others say it. For them, a hard Brexit doesn't work. It is right to say that we have an opportunity to shape farming policy as we would want, subject, of course, to there being a commonly agreed framework—which is important—across the whole of the UK. And money. The reality is that we have no guarantees on the money. Two hundred and sixty million pounds a year goes into farming subsidies in Wales. We can't find that money. I can say that now. It's impossible. It has to be set aside, to my mind, in a separate pot by the UK Government, and distributed as it is now until there's agreement to change things. That's hugely important. But, none of this means anything without a market.

The reality is that 90 per cent of our food and drink exports go to the single market. Geography dictates that. A lot of what we produce—if we look at fish, for example—is perishable. It's just easier to sell it in the European market than it is to take it halfway across the world to another market. So, the reality is, yes, we can look at producing a better deal for our farmers in Wales, as long as the money is there from Westminster. But, none of this means anything unless they can sell their produce. Unless they can get fish and perishable products, for example, across through Dover and into the French ports as quickly as possible, they can't sell anything, which is why it's hugely important that we avoid a hard Brexit.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:43, 10 July 2018

(Translated)

The Plaid Cymru leader, Leanne Wood.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, it's on the record that you said that everyone was running around screaming, when I asked you last week what your plan is for a 'no deal' Brexit. Westminster is in chaos, and leaving the EU without a deal now looks more likely than ever. So, will you now commit to developing a 'no deal' plan to protect Welsh jobs, wages, and the opportunities of future generations?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:44, 10 July 2018

I think I just answered that question. There is no mitigation against no deal. It would not be right to say that. The reality is that, if we have a 'no deal' Brexit, we will lose jobs, and we will lose investment. There is no question about that, which is why I have fought tooth and nail against a 'no deal' Brexit. That does not mean, of course, that we are not doing anything in terms of preparing for Brexit. She'll have heard me say earlier on what we have been doing. We also have put in place, of course, the EU transition fund—£50 million that helps businesses, public services and other organisations to plan for and prepare for the impact of Brexit. So, yes, we have a number of groups where we are talking to stakeholders. We also have money on the table. But surely nobody can pretend that a 'no deal' Brexit can be fully mitigated, because it can't.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 1:45, 10 July 2018

First Minister, I think we can all agree that the Westminster Government is making a right mess of Brexit, and the position is so weak. Last week, Plaid Cymru—. Sorry, it wasn't Plaid Cymru that consented to Westminster's flagship Brexit Bill, was it? And it wasn't Plaid Cymru that abstained on the votes that could have kept us in the single market. And it wasn't Plaid Cymru that voted to trigger article 50 without a plan. First Minister, that was the Labour Party that did all those things—no input, and not even sight of Westminster's Brexit paper. Now, is this what the finance Secretary meant when he said that his deal with the Conservatives marked, and I quote, a 'significant step' towards 'equitable' inter-governmental working, or, in hindsight, was your Government wrong to consent to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, which will help to further the chaos that we're already seeing in Westminster?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:46, 10 July 2018

In terms of what she said about this being an important step to inter-governmental co-operation, I believe that Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister, said the same thing. So, yes, it is an important step, but obviously there are different positions taken by the Scottish and Welsh Governments. The reality is I can't answer for what happens in Westminster; I'm the First Minister of Wales. And she will know, working with her party, we have developed what I think are the most thought-through and sensible policies of anywhere in the UK. We have worked through policies, working with her party, that provide for, yes, the delivery of the referendum result, but also a soft Brexit, a sensible trade policy, sensible relationships with the EU, full unfettered access to the single market—all these things we've shared together. We are continuing to press the UK Government. It seems, we hope, that they are listening to an extent, given that the Chequers agreement goes much further towards where we think the UK should be than has previously been the case.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 1:47, 10 July 2018

How can you expect the UK Government to listen to what we jointly want when you can't even get your own party to accept that position? Your MPs vote against the joint agreed position that your party and my party have agreed in this Assembly. 

First Minister, we face uncertainty here like we've never faced it before. With just weeks of negotiating time left, and Westminster in more chaos than ever, why do you refuse to accept reality? A 'no deal' Brexit is looming over us, and I don't think that your Government is doing anywhere near enough to protect this nation. Now, as a democrat, I believe that people should have a say on the final deal, so, First Minister, now that we know that it looks like either a bad deal or a 'no deal', will you now back a people's vote so that we can have a chance to reject the extreme Brexit that you and I know will cause so much damage to the people and the economy of this country?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:48, 10 July 2018

Well, my view has always been that any deal should be ratified by the Parliaments—plural—of the UK. If that doesn't happen, the matter would either have to be settled through an election or indeed, possibly, by a referendum on the deal itself. Because, if there's no other way of resolving it, then the people who voted in 2016 have a perfect right to decide what kind of deal they want to approve from 2018 onwards. It seems right that that should happen. But it seems to me that the first port of call is for the Parliaments of the UK to examine any deal and decide whether that deal should be supported or not. If there is then, for example, a general election if that deal is rejected, and that produces an inconclusive result, well, how else can it be resolved other than by a referendum on the deal? I think that becomes inevitable at that stage.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

On behalf of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, what is the Welsh Government doing to support children and young people with learning disabilities?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:49, 10 July 2018

We have done a great deal, as he will know—for example, the fact that we've helped local authorities in terms of providing services for care for children; the fact, for example, that we've put so much money into child and adolescent mental health services, where so many young people have had benefit from the £8 million extra we've given to CAMHS; and, of course, we have the children's commissioner there, who is able to advise us in terms of what more we might need to do.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

Well, First Minister, you'll be aware of the very worrying report published by the Children's Commissioner for Wales that showed that, on a number of counts, the Welsh Government is failing to deliver the support needed for children and young people with learning disabilities. The report showed that 83 per cent of parents surveyed said they were worried their children were socially isolated, and many highlighted concerns about bullying. First Minister, in light of this damning report, can you tell us what immediate action the Welsh Government will now take to address the concerns highlighted by the children's commissioner and support children and young people with learning disabilities?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:50, 10 July 2018

Well, it's hugely important with a report like this that there is a proper response given by Government, and that response will be given, of course, and consideration given to what the children's commissioner has actually said.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

First Minister, the Welsh Government has already committed to upholding the rights of children and young people across Wales, and yet we have seen a number of recent reports in recent months where the Welsh Government is failing children and young people. Of course, one way the Welsh Government could better support children and young people and uphold their rights is by supporting my proposed autism Bill, which has indeed the backing of independent bodies such as the National Autistic Society and the Equality and Human Rights Commission and is supported by many in this Chamber. First Minister, will you now therefore commit to supporting the autism Bill, which will actually send a clear message to children and young people across Wales that the Welsh Government will do all that it can to support them? 

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:51, 10 July 2018

We will do all that we can to support parents and, indeed, young people with autism. That does not necessarily mean that it has to be done via a Bill. It's hugely important that resources are made available and we have done that in terms of support. It's also hugely important that we are able to work with organisations to deliver the best package for young people with autism. So, while I'm convinced that a Bill would do it, it's hugely important that we look to see what further resource can be identified in order to help those people who live with the condition every day.