3. What progress is being made in reducing fuel poverty across South Wales West? OAQ52504

Thank you. Our Warm Homes programme is making good progress, reducing fuel poverty households by six percentage points across Wales between 2012 and 2016. Since 2012, we've invested over £25 million installing energy efficiency improvements in low-income households in Bridgend, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Swansea and the Vale of Glamorgan.

Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. It's important that we do recognise the good work that's been going on in reducing fuel poverty and the action being taken to insulate properties in particular. But, of course, there is a problem with that. Many of my constituents have faced the challenges of cavity wall insulation. They've gone through those programmes, supported by Welsh Government, with businesses coming in, selling their product, basically getting the work done, and then they find they have problems down the line. And, of course, these problems should all be protected against by CIGA, the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency. Whether you're living in Briton Ferry, Port Talbot, Cymmer, Croeserw, Gwynfi—no matter where it is, there are problems with CIGA. I've brought this to your attention before. What's the Welsh Government doing to ensure that CIGA lives up to its actual obligations and delivers guarantees for those people?

Well, the Member will be aware—as you say, you've raised it with me several times in correspondence and we had a very good debate in the Chamber, I think it was at the tail end of last year, around this issue—that the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency is an independent body. It provides 25-year guarantees for cavity wall insulation fitted by registered installers in the UK and the Channel Islands. You'll be aware that all the installers are assessed for competence and they have to follow technical guidance for the material used and the best practice guidance. I've had discussions with the UK Government, because I'm aware that there have been concerns, and it is really important that people are able to access the very best advice and hold them to account, and I will continue to do that.

Cabinet Secretary, back in May, I asked you if schemes like Arbed and Nest had contributed to the number of ground- and air-source heat pumps installed in Wales, and can I thank you for writing to me with a bit more information on that? I was a bit surprised to see from your letter, though, that just nine air-source heat pumps were installed through Nest in the six years leading up to 2017 in my region. So, that's over six years—just nine. And the letter goes on to say that ground-source heat pumps have never been an agreed measure for homes under Nest or Arbed. If you're really going to make a difference to Welsh families and, obviously, to cutting carbon emissions, shouldn't these figures be a bit higher by now?

I think we certainly need to look at new technologies and new innovations going forward, and we've just procured for the next stage of our Warm Homes programmes. I was in front of the environment committee last week, alongside my colleague Rebecca Evans, around work in this area, and I do think it would be good if we could see an increase in these numbers. I will certainly keep Members updated on the way forward.

I wanted to ask a question about what discussions you’ve had with the housing Minister about trying to make social housing and council homes more energy efficient and better in this regard. Do you believe that councils need to be told that they need to do a certain level of work to make their homes more sustainable before they receive further grant funding from you as a Government? I know that there are examples throughout Wales of councils that are carrying out good work in this area, which can then have a positive impact on the bills of the tenants, ultimately—they would have to spend less money on their bills as a result. So, what progressive work are you doing in this area?

Thank you. I have had discussions with the Minister for Housing and Regeneration on this issue, particularly in relation to our decarbonisation targets, because, obviously, this is one area that will help us to reach our targets. You're quite right; there are some councils that have real best practice in this area. As to whether we should be making them do things that make houses more sustainable before we give them grants, I don't think we've had specific discussions about that, but it's something I'm very happy to look at with her.