5. Will the First Minister make a statement on the future of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board? OAQ52565

We have set out clear expectations and milestones for Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board to meet in order to drive improvements and action recommendations made in key reports during the next 18 months. A new chair has been appointed and more intensive support is being put in place to accelerate improvements to benefit the population of north Wales.

This is the response that I’ve been hearing over five years of asking this question, to all intents and purposes, and we’ve heard reference to another damning report that has just been published recently. It is a beast of a health board; certainly the largest health board we have in Wales, and perhaps the biggest public body we have in Wales. But over the last three years, it has been in special measures and, therefore, it has been directly accountable to your Government, directly under the purview of your Cabinet Secretary, and therefore the buck stops directly with your Government. You can’t deny that. But tell us, how many more damning reports, and how many more scandals are needed before you'll accept that the situation as it currently exists is unsustainable and that it’s time for change, and that we now need to look again at the structures for delivering health services in north Wales?

I don’t think a change of structure will do anything. What will make a difference is to have reports and ensure that action is being taken on those reports. If nothing happens after the report, then the criticism would be very fair, in my opinion. It’s crucial that we understand what the challenges are before we get to those challenges. What's happening positively in Betsi Cadwaladr? Well, there is a mental health strategy that’s been developed with partners and the users of services. There’s more of a focus on quality and the experience of patients. We’ve seen, of course, maternity services improving, and coming out of special measures. We've seen significant improvement in terms of those who finish their training. We know that therapy services operate access within the target of 14 weeks. So, things have improved, but it is true to say that there is work to be done again, and it's crucial that we consider reports like the Ockenden report in order to know what to go on with. 

First Minister, you'll have to forgive me, but I think that was a very complacent answer. It's very clear from the Ockenden report that the issues that were identified when the health board was put into special measures are not being addressed, and I quote from one of the reasons why the health board was being put in special measures:

'the health board must implement governance and assurance actions which have been highlighted in a series of reports, including by the Wales Audit Office and HIW, and in a review carried out by Ann Lloyd.'

The Donna Ockenden report makes it absolutely clear that those things have not been fully implemented, and yet the man who is responsible for the oversight and accountability arrangements of the special measures, who's sat on your front row in your Cabinet, around that Cabinet table, who is responsible for the failure, is still in his post. Don't you agree with me that there needs to be an apology from the Cabinet Secretary to the people of north Wales and to the families of the Tawel Fan patients who were failed by your Government in terms of turning this situation around? And will you accept that, given that we don't have any confidence in your health Secretary to turn the situation around, he ought to go and go now?

Oh dear, oh dear. Is he standing for the leadership as well? I mean, really. We have a report that was published last week. We've not had a chance to respond to it yet, and according to the Conservative Party the response can come within a few days. It's a 500-page report. I wonder whether they've actually read the report. There are 50 pages of an executive summary, and it is right to say that the Cabinet Secretary will need to respond to that report, which he will do this afternoon. This is all about improving patient experience, not about scoring political points.

First Minister, what lessons have you learned over the years since the creation of the Betsi Cadwaladr university health board?

Well, because we know that there were enormous problems in the health board and those problems are not yet resolved, and that has to be accepted. There has been some progress, but it's reports such as Ockenden that provide us with the ability to identify the challenges more closely and ensure the health board then meets those challenges.