Universal Credit

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd on 18 September 2018.

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Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour

(Translated)

1. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the roll-out of universal credit in Wales? OAQ52616

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:32, 18 September 2018

Well, I remain deeply concerned about the fundamental flaws of universal credit. I'm disappointed that the UK Government is persisting with its roll-out. The National Audit Office’s findings on universal credit highlight many issues that we have also repeatedly raised with the UK Government.

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 1:33, 18 September 2018

Thank you for that. I arranged a poverty round-table during the summer in Carmarthenshire, and there were representatives at that round-table from the Trussell Trust. They told me that demand for food parcels has increased by 52 per cent where universal credit has been rolled out. There has been a 13 per cent increase in Carmarthenshire in the past year alone. We all know that one in four claimants fall into debt because they haven't received their first payment on time, and that four in 10 claimants are struggling to pay council tax, rent and bills. And Disability Rights UK has said, given the dire state of the universal credit system, that they find it beyond belief that a responsible Government would carry on migrating people into a system that clearly doesn't work. Given all of that, and I'm sure that you agree with most of it, in the meantime, what is the Government—this Government—doing to support my constituents who are already in receipt of universal credit and those who are to find themselves in that position very shortly?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:34, 18 September 2018

Well, we remain committed to ensuring that the most vulnerable people in our society have access to free and independent advice on social welfare law issues, including debt, welfare, and money management. Through our financial inclusion work, we provide around £6 million a year, which is used to fund projects that deliver advice services within all 22 local authority areas, and we know that the funding is making a difference to people's lives. During last year—in other words, between April 2017 and March 2018—the funding supported over 73,000 people, helping them to access over £53 million of welfare benefit income for people supported. And I know that universal credit advice events have taken place across several areas around Wales.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 1:35, 18 September 2018

As you might be aware, the Department for Work and Pensions has recruited community partner teams from people with lived experience of disability from external bodies, primarily third sector bodies, on a 12-month project to shape the support for disabled people and people with health conditions. Last Friday, at the Assembly cross-party autism group meeting held in Wrexham, there was a presentation from the DWP community partnership team for north and mid Wales—again, not civil servants; these are people who work in the disability sector, some of whom are disabled themselves. They told us that they are providing advice and training to job coaches in job centres to enable a better understanding and support, but it's only a 12-month project—2018 to 2019. What, if any, involvement or oversight has the Welsh Government had in this programme, and will you join the cross-party autism group in considering a call for that 12-month programme to be extended?

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:36, 18 September 2018

Well, it's not clear whether that programme is one that we have funded directly through local authorities, but the Member will have heard the answer I gave earlier. I can say that around £3 million per annum of debt advice funding currently administered by the Money Advice Service via the financial levy will be devolved to Welsh Government when the single financial guidance body will be set up We expect that to happen in January of next year. And that, of course, will assist us in making sure that we have the right level of support in place.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru

In correspondence to the UK Government in July, the housing and regeneration Minister wrote to the UK Government expressing concerns with universal credit, and the Minister in that letter called for, for example, greater support for those less digitally literate. I would say that that's something that could have been done easily if you passed the financial inclusion Bill that I had put forward. Other concerns were raised, such as being consistent with alternative payment arrangements. These are, fundamentally, administration changes that this Government could do for those vulnerable people, if you chose to do so. So, why do you, time and time again, refuse to take responsibility for wanting those administration changes to be brought upon the Welsh Government when you could be helping the most vulnerable in our society? Surely, we should take anything you say on universal credit with a pinch of salt.

Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 1:37, 18 September 2018

But at a cost, because with administration there always comes a cost, and the costs are usually significant. I would rather see the issues dealt with in this way—instead of costs going on administration, that money being given to universal credit claimants, and secondly, of course, to see a Labour Government elected in London who will rectify the situation properly.