If you're leaving the Chamber, can you do so quietly, please, and quickly?

We're going to now move to the short debate, and I call on Jack Sargeant to speak on the topic he has chosen. Jack Sargeant.  

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you for this opportunity to lead my first short debate in the Senedd on improving our democracy and political debate: why Wales must lead the way in creating and delivering a kinder politics. I'm also very pleased today to be giving a minute of my time to colleagues from across the Chamber, including Adam Price, Julie Morgan and Darren Millar.

I entered this Assembly during the hardest time of my life and my family's life, and for many of us it still is the hardest time of our lives. Back then, I pledged to my constituents, the people of the Labour Party and, indeed, people across Wales that I would play my part in delivering a kinder politics and also building on my dad's legacy. He embodied a kinder politics, with his ability and willingness to never be a bystander and always strive to work cross-party. He called out bullying when he saw it and supported people through their difficulties. I intend to do the same: to build a kinder politics, not just in politics itself, but kindness in life in general.

We will at times hurt people, because that is life. However, we should never intentionally do so, and we should all be conscious to be kinder to each other. To achieve that, we need fundamental change in culture. Change in culture of our politics to make it more accessible to the people that we represent, treating each other with respect, regardless of our views and listening to ideas and working across party divides for the good of the country, because that’s what the people expect from their elected representatives.

I believe this debate is a timely one, with recent news headlines and statistics revealing a rise in hate crime, politicians receiving hate messages online and public unease on the rise. A huge increase in social media, social and political challenges are all factors in why our modern politics has become a diverse and tribal one. For all the great progress we have made as a country, Wales is part of a UK that faces many divisions, not just on the issues of remain or leave, but young or old, north and south, rich and poor, urban and rural. Many people look to my party to lead the way and heal these divisions, but it is our duty, all of our duty, to play our own part and lead the change we need.

The next generation of people across Wales look to us to act in their interests. In the Senedd Oriel there is a display board with things that people from across Wales and further afield want to see, and in my first speech in the Senedd I said that I hoped, as a representative of a new generation in this Assembly, I could do something to build a better, kinder politics for all for the future. And this means getting more of the younger generation involved—our future generation with fresh ideas—in this place and in other political institutions.

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to read through some of these ideas on the board in the Oriel and I stress that many people across this Chamber should go and have a look for themselves, because I wasn't surprised to see that so many children and young people refer to the need for better mental health services and to ensure that we end bullying in schools. This, of course, will take time, but with the right leadership we can ensure that, within our own political parties, we lead the way to end bullying within our ranks. I firmly believe that leadership is about listening, and for my party, it's about listening to the people of Wales and reaching out to our new members and those current members, and supporters of this Assembly and the Welsh Government. It's about involving people in our debates on policy and decision making. 

The public look to all our political parties, often without much trust, to lead by example, but they also look at us as individuals to act, and it's just not good enough to notice the need for kindness in our political opponents; we also have to look at ourselves. For democracy to be effective, parties, at the very least, have to function. Implosion and infighting attitudes are all impacts that parties across the board have, and ultimately, the current tribal nature of UK politics runs the risk of all MPs and AMs no longer being able to unite those people at the furthest end of society.

The job of Government is to take the anger and frustration that so many groups across the UK and across Wales are feeling about their future and turn that anger and frustration into action and success. Governance is about healing those divisions and unifying the very best of all these ideals, not just the mainstream ones, but all those that stir the most emotions. We know that from our political division there has been an increase in hate crime, and the harsh reality is that race, ethnicity, religion, gender, disability status and all related categories all continue to determine the life chances and well-being of people in Britain in ways that are totally unacceptable.

Now, some will argue whether a kinder politics is possible at all, but a kinder politics is only possible if more of those who will benefit can vote, for example. Politics should be the space where the battle of ideas allows our dialects between different political positions, and we've seen, in past years, the rise of identity politics as a simplistic answer to complex problems, but there is more to offer and it is important to start crafting new and competing political projects. A return to kinder politics means also the possibility to offer more viable policy alternatives for the people to choose from, rooted in fairness and social and factual analysis. A route to kinder politics also means tearing down the echo of the chambers and the disconnect between the public and elected Members. And, what happens on both sides of the Chamber and all sides of the Chamber, be it in the media, in Parliament and the Assembly and in public forums, is the creation of echo chambers, and we no longer see the exchange of proper ideas, but rather, a solidification of one's ready-formed mindset—the bubble mindset. One consequence of this is that extremist positions can thrive more easily than they used to. Personal interaction has now become virtual and that has allowed the radicalisation and the risk of radicalisation in a tone of discourse, with the news and debates on social networks being turned nasty.

For politics to work at its best it also needs compromise, and compromise is a form of kindness. It is about respecting others to genuinely take their views on board. Sometimes in politics we agree to things that don't necessarily benefit us, but because it is the right thing to do, and in such circumstances, it is an unkind thing to try and reframe or redefine that compromise. It appears that some, including the powerful in our economy across the UK and in political life, cannot imagine that kindness works as a political strategy. Many see kindness as a weakness. It is a character trait avoided and mocked. Well, I do not agree with that, and I will not give in to those who suggest that a change in culture, a kinder politics and a kindness in life isn't possible. Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer.

In the 1960s, the American writer James Baldwin argued for a new politics of love. It was a brave call at a time when freedom riders were literally being lynched in cold blood and hot rage. Hannah Arendt wrote Baldwin a letter in response arguing that politics and love must be strangers. She saw in it a slippery slope to sentimentalism and the banishment of reason. When you leave the door ajar to love, she argued, you also leave it open to its opposite, hate, and she had experience of that, brutally, of course, in Nazi Germany. Baldwin—black and gay—disagreed:

'Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within.'

Loving each other means that we have to be fully ourselves with all our vulnerability, and learning that to be heard we also must learn to listen. Kindness is not weakness. It's a different type of strength, what Baldwin described as

'the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth', and it's in that spirit that I'm glad to support the call for a new kind of politics where love is our motivation, our ideal, our virtue and our common goal.

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to say a few words in this very important debate. I'd like to congratulate Jack Sargeant for putting forward this subject, because I think this is a difficult subject and I think he shows courage in putting it forward. I do think we need a kinder politics—a politics of mutual respect—and I think in the short time he's been here Jack has contributed to that mutual respect.

Before I came here as an Assembly Member, along with others in this Chamber, I was a Member in the House of Commons, and when I came here it did seem a more consensual Chamber. It did seem that people looked to where they agreed as well as where they disagreed, and I felt that there was a great deal of mutual respect. But I do feel that that has deteriorated over the last few years, and I feel that as an example, as Jack has said, to the public, in this Chamber we have not always been very good examples recently, and I think it has become more confrontational. There's been more shouting and there's been less tolerance of each other as individuals.

I'd like to support this debate very strongly, because I do believe it is possible to hold passionate views, to differ very strongly, but to still respect each other, and I think that we ought to do that in this Chamber. I think Jack's debate today highlights that, and I'd like to give it my fullest support.

I too, Presiding Officer, also want to rise in support of Jack's calls for a kinder politics here in Wales, which respects the dignity of every human being. After all, we're all equal, we're all made in the image of God, and we all have a right, I think, to be heard. We forget sometimes, I think, and lose ourselves in the theatre that is this Assembly Chamber. I would be the first one to acknowledge that sometimes, when passions run high, we say things that we'd like to stuff back down our throats. But one thing that is for sure is that there is a great deal of unity, and there has been in my 11 years in this Assembly Chamber, and I would concur with the view of Julie Morgan that there is much more that unites us than divides us, and I think that it's very important that we should be people who disagree well, so that even if we don't share the same views, we can at least appreciate the views of those that we disagree with.

I think that Jack's call certainly hasn't fallen on deaf ears as far as I'm concerned, and I very much hope that we will all do what we can in this Chamber and outside of this Chamber, to make sure that that respect is there, that the kindness is always shown in the words that we share and in the actions that we take towards other people. So, congratulations to you, Jack. I'm fully behind your calls, and I'm sure I speak for all on my benches in saying so.

Thank you. Can I now call the leader of the house to reply to the debate? Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm also extremely grateful to Jack for tabling this debate today, because of course Wales can and should lead the way to promote kinder and more diverse politics. The quality of the discourse in this Chamber and elsewhere in public life of course should set the tone for public debate in Wales, and, Deputy Presiding Officer, I too think that the level of debate in the Chamber has changed significantly over the last year or so, and I regret that as well.

I didn't hear the exchange between my colleague Kirsty Williams and Darren Millar earlier on, but I would like to say something that I have been very struck by here—we can often have very vigorous disagreements, vigorous debate, vigorous argument, and Darren and I have exchanged vigorous and passionate views on opposite sides of the spectrum, but what the public don't see is that, actually, we're friendly outside, that we have much more in common than that which divides us. If you wanted to do it as a percentage, we actually agree on a very large amount—we're arguing about a very small amount of difference. We're actually all here for the same reason: we're here because we want to make Wales a better place for constituents and for all of us, and we have a different route-map to get there, but we're all trying to get to the same place. So, I think what the debate does is it highlights that.

So often in public life, it's regarded as a sort of adversarial thing, but we all know that, actually, much of what we do here is consensual, that we argue about small bits of factual detail and nuance, but, actually, very largely we agree. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to get legislation through. We're often going in the same direction, but perhaps we have a slightly different route. If you want to use the Google Maps analogy: your estimated time of arrival might be two minutes slower if you go down this route, but we're trying to get to the same place.

Actually, I think that's something we should talk about more. In encouraging, for example, young women to come forward into politics, it's often a surprise to them that we get on very well, that we all, across the parties, get on well outside of the Chamber, that we often have that discourse, because what they see, of course, is the vigorous debate in here. They assume that that goes out into the committees and so on, because, actually, people don't watch the committees as much. They don't see the consensual working, the hard work and the detail that goes on in them. I think, actually, we've got a duty to make sure that people do see that bit of consensual—to quote the Jo Cox quote that Darren used, we do have

'more in common than that which divides us.'

It sometimes takes a horrific act like the death of the MP Jo Cox to bring forward that kind of surge of emotion. I was very struck by how, after Jo died, for a moment, the media talked about politicians as the public servants we all know they are, and this terrible dichotomy that we all have where a local politician is often very admired locally, but, actually, politicians in general are not. There was a little surge, wasn't there, of people actually understanding all of that work, and then we relapsed back into the hurly-burly of everyday life? But I think that the positive behaviour and role modelling should actually be something we celebrate, and when we do talk to the young people in our youth parliament, for example, and Jack's highlighted this, we should get them to have that kind of consensus building, because you know that we all achieve more when we build that consensus, and we're often trying to go in the same direction.

I think there are several things that we need to also really consider very hard in this Chamber. There are things we could do, the Commission could do and we could all do, around things like internships—paid internships, proper internships—that encourage people who are not currently represented in the Chamber to be here. So, specific internships for people with disabilities, for example, or people from diverse communities who are not currently represented here could be offered so that we can show people that this place is a welcoming place for all of them.

I recently met with a group, just like the Deputy Presiding Officer, of young people from a diverse range of ethnic minority backgrounds, and I was very struck by them saying that they had not felt welcome in the building because, when they looked through the glass walls into the building, they didn't see anybody who looked like them, and so they didn't feel it was a place for them. I was quite shocked by that. I think we need to do something about that. We need to make sure that this place is a welcoming, transparent place for all of our communities in Wales, for our young people as well as—well, for every community. That's the point. And people do look to see somebody who looks like them, to see if that place is a welcoming place for them. I personally, for example, would find it very difficult to walk into a coffee shop or a bar that didn't have anyone that looked like me in it. I think I probably wouldn't be very welcome there, and you can extrapolate that into public life. And you do see that that lack of role model really matters. 

In terms of things like hate crime, Jack mentioned the rise in hate crime. We are working very hard to make sure that we encourage people to come forward and report all of the crime that happens, because we know that there is under-reporting, and part of that issue is people—and we've spoken to all of our police commissioner colleagues on this as well—understanding that something will be done if they report it because, actually, there's a lot of assumption around that. The police commissioners across the party spectrum have worked very hard to ensure that, actually, something will be done if you report such a crime and that we highlight that—that this is not an acceptable way to behave in modern Wales, and we've worked very hard to do that. 

Similarly with our asylum and refugee plan and our nation of sanctuary plan, which we are very proud of and which we are just analysing the responses to. We want to make sure that everyone in Wales can make a proper contribution to our life, that they can use the talents that they brought with them in Wales for all of our benefit. We know that we couldn't run our national health service, we couldn't run many of our public services without the contribution of people who came here, escaping sometimes the most horrendous situations and then are able to turn themselves around and use their skills for our benefit. I'm never happier than when I see that happen, and I hope you will see the really lovely video that's available on Facebook—it comes up very often on my feed anyway—of the two young people in traditional Muslim dress in Carmarthenshire speaking Welsh over a stream. It's extremely heart-warming, and they talk about how their lives have changed since they've been in Wales in Welsh, which is just absolutely lovely. I think it's that kind of role model that we need—those young people to come forward into public life having made a life here that Jack is highlighting. So, I'm delighted that he said that. 

I just want to say one last thing about that. [Interruption.] Of course, Angela. 

Thank you for taking an intervention, because I think, actually, the one thing that we haven't mentioned is the role the media play, and I think it's vital that the media desist on some of the ways that they portray people, politicians, refugees, so that these good role models, these good stories, the broadening of our understanding and the acceptance of different ways of life are portrayed in a far more positive way because, to be frank, you can pick up any paper, broadsheet or tabloid, and it's always the negative thing that comes out. It's the politician who spends 32p on cat food or the person in Muslim dress walking down a street and saying something that's misinterpreted. You know, we always look for the worst, and I'm afraid to say that I think that the media have to be part of helping everyone to develop a new and kinder type of politics. One of the reasons I think it is so important is if we do not do this—leave the fabric of our society open to just the extremes of all the edges. The good people won't want to take part in it, because they'll take one look and say, 'This isn't for me', and they will go away. Once we do that, we vacate that, and one of the things we know for a fact is that nature abhors a vacuum. If we leave that vacuum, then it will be filled by people who don't have that love that you talked about, and that Adam so wisely spoke of, at the centre of it.      

I couldn't agree with you more, Angela. One of the things that we've been very pleased to be doing is collecting a series of positive stories from around Wales to get them into the media, and to interest journalists in better magazine-type pieces than the kind of stuff that you're talking about.

I wanted to finish by saying that without young role models like Jack, it's very difficult to get that picture across, and I would encourage all of you—. So, one of the things I do, and I speak in a lot of schools—I know Suzy does and Caroline does because I see them there, because they're from the same bit as me—I speak to a lot of young people in schools, a really diverse range of people, and I say, 'Look, you'll have heard all that stuff about politicians, you'll have heard that women politicians get a load of grief and all the rest of it, and some of that is true. But I do this job because I love it and because, actually, it really is a valuable thing to do. You come to realise that you're doing something that's very important and, actually, you have a serious chance to change the way that your nation does certain things.' That's the thing that we need to get across, because it's lost in the gloss of difficulty and the lack of kindness. But if we were to show the kind of strength that Adam talked about in kindness, and Julie talked about as well, in the way that we debate things, if we were to show some of that consensus and the real satisfaction you get out of doing a public service—not just an elected one, other public service lives are possible—then we will get a kinder sort of politics, because we will be emphasising the part of our job that is that part and not emphasising the part of our job that is the kind of cut and thrust that you sometimes get in First Minister's questions and all the rest of it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with us pointing out that, actually, Darren's rather more of a pussycat outside the Chamber than he sometimes is—to quote my colleague Kirsty Williams. Not to spoil your reputation, Darren. [Laughter.] But, also, that we do have more in common than that which divides us, and I think, Deputy Presiding Officer, that's a good place to stop. Thank you, Jack, for the debate.  

Thank you very much. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you. 

The meeting ended at 18:40.