5. Statement by the Minister for Culture, Tourism and Sport: Priorities for the Historic Environment of Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:26 pm on 25 September 2018.

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Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 4:26, 25 September 2018

(Translated)

Thank you very much, acting Chair. Thank you. May I also thank and welcome the statement from the Minister on priorities for the historic environment in Wales, and also welcome the publication of this document today that David Melding has referred to already? Because, of course, with this agenda we have a treasure here, a treasure to be treasured indeed.

May I start by welcoming a few of the things that the Minister has already said? When you say that you recognise the contributions that the National Library of Wales, the National Museum of Wales and the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales make in their own right, the quality of their work has made an impression on you—and has had made impression on all of us, I would say—and then you go on to say,

'I do not want to see these organisations lose their individual identities.'

Well, hear, hear. I congratulate you very much for being able to make such a statement.

You go on before the end to talk about the financial challenges for this sector, of course, as we withdraw from the EU. The question that stems from that is: how are you, as the Minister in this place, intending to ensure continuity of funding when the European funding comes to an end?

That’s one specific question there, but, of course, as you’ve suggested, the majority of this is to do with the history of the nation of Wales, and the need to expand the experience by educating in situ, so that as our people, our pupils, our children visit historic sites, there’s also an educational role there to teach our history as the nation of Wales. I recognise that you’ve started over the summer by underlining the role of the Welsh castles, such as Castell y Bere and so on, to be contrasted with the usual castles that we hear about, such as Conwy, Beaumaris, Harlech and any other oppressive castle that you might want to talk about.

But the fundamental point is: in the absence of teaching our history in Wales in our schools—we’ve had several debates in the past on this, we will continue to have those discussions, I’m sure—would you not agree that it’s required for descriptions in our castles to give the history of brave Welsh people in their battle for independence, and the cruel way that we were very often oppressed in the past? Because, of course, as you’ve recognised before, apparently there are more castles per square mile in Wales than in any other nation in Europe. That could be a strength in terms of selling this unique point of view, but it’s also a deep echo of our history in the past.

So, I do very much welcome your work this summer in Castell y Bere, of course, the Welsh castle, the last to fall to the English—or the Anglo-Normans I'd better call them here; they became English people later on—and, of course, the contribution of Caergwrle castle and also Criccieth castle. But this summer, I went to see one of the Anglo-Norman castles, Castell Llansteffan at the time, and when you go there, you have a description of the details of the construction of the castle. You don’t hear anything about the history of the place or the history of the countryside surrounding it or the history of the nation itself. You have descriptions of how this castle developed over the centuries, the height of the walls and so on, where they lived, where they moved some two centuries afterwards. There's no description of our history as a nation there—why the castle was built to oppress the local Welsh people.

And, as I've already mentioned, we've heard a great deal about the major castles in the north, such as Caernarfon and Harlech, that encircle and surround the north, built by Edward I to oppress the Welsh. Now, it's wonderful to note that Owain Glyndwr made his mark and controlled Wales from Harlech castle for around four years. He did gain access to that place. I applaud the work to improve accessibility to Harlech castle, but, of course, somebody was there before and controlled an independent nation for around four years or so. That was a historic moment for the men of Harlech. And of course I would hope that the Minister would be able to agree with me that being aware of this history can avoid embarrassments such as the iron ring in Flint castle last year. If you knew that Flint castle was the first to be built in that iron ring built by Edward I to kill the Welsh people in the past, you wouldn't have pursued the idea of, 'Why don't we have an iron ring, and we'll build it in Flint castle?'

Just moving on, safeguarding our historic environment certainly means safeguarding our local historic place names—the traditional place names. We've a great deal of examples, such as Cwm Cneifion becoming 'Nameless Cwm', and there are dozens of similar examples—several new English names replacing the historic Welsh names. So, does the Minister still believe that it was right to vote against my Bill to safeguard historic place names last year, and, given that we're still hearing of examples this year of losing historic names, does he have any intention of providing legal protection to safeguard our historic names? After all, rare plants are protected under law, so what about protecting our traditional names, which define us as Welsh people?

Finally—I am aware of the time—I'll turn to the Welsh places of worship forum. I'm pleased to see reference to that forum and pleased to be able to celebrate the work that the forum does. I speak as the secretary of a lively, vibrant chapel in Swansea and just to confirm that there is a rich history, as we've heard, in our chapels and our churches here in Wales as well. After all, as we heard from David, when nonconformity was at its height, one new chapel in Wales was built every 10 days in the 1880s. In that decade, one chapel was built every 10 days. It's possible to pursue the history of Christianity in Wales from the time of the Romans on by going to our old churches and then our chapels and looking at our Christian ruins. As I've already mentioned, and as you've referred to, there is excellent work being done in this field. But can I ask if the Minister can expand on this excellent work and tell us how these different plans will develop? Because it's true to say that we have been weighing up and lauding the extraordinary religious history of our nation as well. Thank you very much.