2. What is the Welsh Government's long-term vision for the development of bus services in the countryside? OAQ52656

Well, a sustainable bus network is vital to people who live in rural communities, and we will, of course, work with our partners to fund and provide access to key services and facilities, to tackle road congestion, bus punctuality and air quality. As part of that strategy, we want to ensure that we improve the network, and there will be an opportunity over the ensuing years, because we now have the power over buses, to create legislation in order to ensure that the problems that we've seen over the years, where companies collapse and then aren't able to carry on with services, do not continue, and that we can give more assurance to people not just in rural areas but in urban areas too.

Of those using public transport, 80 per cent use buses. In rural areas, such as parts of my constituency in Arfon, there are no trains available, and the bus is the only option for people without cars to travel to work and to access crucial services. But the truth is that we need to transform bus services in rural areas, and Plaid Cymru wants to give far more power to local councils so that they can arrange appropriate services, in collaboration with local bus companies. There are some communities who have expressed a desire to have an integrated transport system, which would include using hydrogen and electric vehicles in order to fill some of the gaps in current services. So, what practical support can you as First Minister give for pilot schemes of that kind?

Well, of course, we are open to looking at bids that would come from local authorities. But one thing I would say is that it's all-important to ensure that local authorities collaborate with each other because the fact of the matter is that people don't just travel in one county; they travel from one to another. So, cross-boundary services should receive the same kind of attention as those in-county. But, of course, we wish to work with the local authorities and also the bus companies to ensure that the system is more sustainable ultimately.

There is a need, I think, to look at how rural bus services are delivered because they'll never be run commercially, of course. Now, Welsh Government and local authority operators, I believe, need to come together to form a partnership, and that partnership doesn't exist at the moment. Can Welsh Government take a leading role in forming such a partnership?

Well, one of the difficulties, of course, is that we have seen bus companies collapse and, as a result, services see a break. Quite often, of course, they are reprovided by another provider. We have seen Arriva, for example, pull out of all of Ceredigion, in effect, despite the fact they operated the bus services there and, of course, new companies did come forward. But, again, there was uncertainty and, again, there was a potential gap in service. Now, we consulted, as he will know, last year on proposals that would strengthen the arrangements for the planning and delivery of local bus services in the future and, of course, we will need to look over the next few years at how we are able to ensure a continuity of service where that service is not subsidised and where, of course, the private operator can do however they want. Now, that clearly is not a sustainable model for the future, but now that we have the powers that we've asked for for so long over the bus network, there's an exciting opportunity to craft a more integrated and sustainable network in the future. 

The advances in technology have got huge potential to improve the passenger experience and improve the viability of buses. The Welsh Government have been funding the Bwcabus project in Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire, which has used a demand-responsive model to make public transport viable in smaller routes. That sort of approach, merged with app-based technology, has got huge potential. Anybody who's booked a taxi by an app knows that you can order a time, you can know the price, you know how long it's going to take. Would the First Minister look at how that sort of technology could be applied to buses right across Wales to make public transport a viable day-to-day option for people?

Yes, I do. In many rural areas, as the Member is right to say, Bwcabus has been hugely important in terms of being able to provide public transport where otherwise none would be made available. As we see technology develop, as he rightly says, then there is the opportunity to increase flexibility, to have a better idea of where demand is at particular times of day and, of course, for people to be sure that a bus will turn up when they need that bus. It's a blurring in some ways of the distinction between a bus service and a taxi service, in some parts of Wales. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as it creates that kind of flexibility, and I think he's absolutely right to say that, with technology now, there is ample opportunity for us to extend more flexible bus services into parts of Wales that perhaps haven't seen a bus service for many, many years.