6. Will the First Minister provide an update on the impact of universal credit in Torfaen? OAQ52752

Well, people are struggling, not just in Torfaen but elsewhere, because of the complexities of universal credit. The UK Government has to address these issues urgently before they proceed with any managed migration of existing benefit claimants to universal credit.

First Minister, Torfaen has had more than a year now of the full service roll-out of universal credit. In that year, we have seen people waiting six to eight weeks for payment, an increase in debt and rent arrears, more and more people needing to use food banks and a universal credit helpline where people are literally waiting hours to speak to a member of staff. I believe the local record in Torfaen is four hours, with most people, especially vulnerable people, giving up in that time. will you join me in paying tribute to the excellent coalition we've got of Torfaen council, Torfaen citizens advice bureau, TRAC2 and housing providers, who are all working so hard to get people through this universal credit maze? But will you also join me in calling the UK Government to recognise that it's time to stop this now and sort out these problems before it causes any more suffering?  

First of all, can I add my thanks and congratulations, of course, to the fine example of co-operative working that we've seen there, helping the people who are most vulnerable at a time when they need to know which direction to go in and to find out exactly what they're entitled to. But, yes, it's quite clear to me and to many in this Chamber, that universal credit as it currently stands has not worked. And it's absolutely crucial, where there is a problem, that that problem is sorted rather than sorting it after more people have suffered, and that's unfortunately the situation we find ourselves in now.

First Minister, IFF Research recently carried out a survey of universal credit claimants on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. They found evidence of positive employment outcomes for universal credit claimants with a near doubling of the proportion of claimants being in a paid role eight months into their claim. They also reported an increase in the number of hours worked and overall income levels. Does the First Minister recognise that universal credit is tackling ingrained worklessness in areas such as Torfaen and that, as a result, people are moving into work faster? Thank you.

Well, should I be surprised that the department that has the responsibility for universal credit has commissioned a survey to say it's fine? I would have questions as to the objectivity—I don't know more about it—of such a survey. But let me say to him that the real effect of universal credit is this: Community Housing Cymru recently reported that housing association tenants on universal credit in Wales are already in over £1 million-worth of debt in terms of rent arrears. According to their survey, a sample of 29 housing associations in Wales—that survey was conducted with 3,475 people living in housing association homes in Wales, and that shows that each person is, on average, £420 worse off because of rent arrears. That's the reality of the situation when it comes to universal credit, and that's why it has to be halted and reversed.