We'll move on now to item 7—debate on a Member's legislative proposal: a Bill to incorporate the United Nations declaration on the rights of disabled persons into Welsh law, and I call on Helen Mary Jones to move the motion.  

Motion NDM6819 Helen Mary Jones

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill to incorporate the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Disabled Persons into Welsh law.

2. The purpose of this Bill would be to strengthen rights-based policy approaches to promote the rights of those with disabilities and use the UN Declaration on the Rights of Disabled Persons as a framework for future developments.

Motion moved.

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. It is my privilege to propose today that this Assembly should legislate to incorporate the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled persons into Welsh law. I must begin with an apology, the motion before us refers to an earlier version of the United Nations declaration rather than the updated convention, as ratified by the UK Government in 2009. This error is entirely mine. It arose from haste in preparing the motion, and I trust that the Assembly will accept my apology in this regard and that we can frame the debate in the light of the current convention. 

Disabled people comprise 26 per cent of the Welsh population—higher than the average for the UK—and they still face systematic discrimination and prejudice. Nearly 40 per cent of disabled people in Wales live in poverty compared with 22 per cent of the non-disabled population. Only 45.2 per cent of disabled people aged 16 to 64 in Wales are in employment compared with 80.3 per cent of the non-disabled population. Only one Welsh local authority has set any targets for a percentage of affordable homes to be accessible, and only 15 per cent of local authorities hold good information about disabled people's housing needs. I could go on. 

When the United Nations committee reviewed the performance of the UK as a whole in relation to the convention, its findings were damning. Amongst other issues, the impact of austerity was highlighted as having resulted in severe negative financial constraints amongst disabled people and their families. The committee also highlighted the issue of disability hate crime, the absence of robust data, the employment and pay gap for disabled people, especially for disabled women, and the lack of a policy framework to address the poverty of families with disabled children. Overall, the committee found that there was insufficient and uneven implementation of the convention across all policy areas, all levels of Government and all regions. 

Now, disability organisations acknowledge that there have been positive developments for disabled people since devolution. We have adopted the social model of disability as the basis of our policy here in Wales, and that is very important, as the leader of the house commented in response to a question earlier today.

The Welsh Government's framework for action on independent living sets out a vision for implementing the convention in Wales based on the four key values of confidence, co-operation, co-production and choice and control. There is very much to welcome in the framework, but it is not a law—it's a policy, and policies can very easily be changed. There is no formal redress for a disabled person whose rights under the framework have not been met. 

To my mind, rather strangely, the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 states that persons exercising functions under the Act must have due regard to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the United Nations Principles for Older Persons, but not, on the face of the law, the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The Act's code of practice does mention the convention, but, at any rate, the code only applies to the provision of social services, and not to other situations in which disabled people may face discrimination, like planning, housing, business and the economy.

In the past, acting Deputy Presiding Officer, the Welsh Government has argued that the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 provides a legal basis for improving the rights of disabled people in Wales and the services provided to them. But, this legislation is not human rights legislation, and the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales does not have any relevant enforcement powers.

I submit, acting Deputy Presiding Officer, that it is time to legislate to fully incorporate the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled persons into Welsh law. Incorporation would require the consideration of disabled people's rights in all policy and legislation proposals brought forward by Welsh Ministers. It would raise the profile of disabled people's rights across the Welsh Government and, indeed, across the whole public sector and the wider community in Wales. It would convey a very clear message to our disabled fellow citizens that we, their representatives, understand the prejudice, the discrimination and the barriers to participation that they face, and that we are determined to address that prejudice and discrimination and remove those barriers.

We do know that incorporation can be effective. Research by Dr Simon Hoffman of the Wales observatory on the human rights of children and young people at Swansea University has found that the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011, while falling short of full incorporation, has had a positive impact—legitimising the language of convention rights in policy discourse, introducing an expectation of compliance with the convention and introducing the children’s rights impact assessments, which serve to embed the convention as a framework for policy development. He also found that the Measure had provided an impetus and confidence to stakeholders, and to children and young people themselves, to use the convention in policy advocacy.

Acting Deputy Presiding Officer, when this Assembly chose to legislate for the rights of children and young people, we sent a very clear message, both to children and young people and to those providing services for them. We were clear that upholding children's rights should not be left to policy alone, but should be a matter of the law and legally enforceable. I believe that it is time to send that same message to our disabled fellow citizens and those providing services for them, and I hope that this Assembly and the Welsh Government will agree in principle.

The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Disabled Persons, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1975, states that all disabled persons have the same rights as other persons, and recognises the obstacles created by social institutions and society in general—the social model of disability that Helen Mary referred to. Although non-binding, the declaration marked the beginning of a new approach to disability issues as human rights issues.

The UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities was adopted on 13 December 2006, and the UK Government signed this legal treaty in 2009. This sets out what rights disabled people should have, alongside international benchmarks, and covers areas including health, education, employment, access to justice, personal security, independent living and access to information.

The UK Government has made it clear that it wants the UK to lead a 'global race to the top' in rights and standards, not a competitive race to the bottom. However, there is merit in incorporating the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities into Welsh law in order to strengthen and promote the rights of disabled people, as the Welsh Government did with children's rights by incorporating the convention on the rights of the child into Welsh law in 2011. We will, therefore, be supporting this legislative proposal.

When we had the debate here in 2010 supporting Disability Wales's Independent Living campaign, the Welsh Government then put down a neutralising amendment. Now, of course, everyone speaks in favour of independent living. As the campaign stated, independent living enables disabled people to achieve their own goals and live their own lives in the way that they choose for themselves.

After I led a debate on co-production in the last Assembly, certain Welsh Government Ministers then refused to use the term. As I stated, this is about seeing everyone as equal partners in local services, breaking down the barriers between people who provide services and those who use them. I said this goes beyond models of service user consultation to better delivery of health, social services and other services to an ageing population, to people facing illness and disability, to the economically inactive and to those living in social isolation.

In 2013, my Member-proposed Bill, Community Care (Direct Payments) (Wales) Bill, was designed to offer carers and service users choice, control and independence. The Deputy Minister stated that she would like the principles in my Bill to be taken forward in the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Bill, as it then was, and I therefore agreed to withdraw it and work with the Welsh Government on this. The subsequent 'Social Services and Well-Being (Wales) Act 2014—Part 2: Code of Practice (General Functions)', states that

'Local authorities must seek to empower people to produce innovative solutions...through local networks and communities', and that this

'means putting robust arrangements in place to secure involvement of people in the design and operation of services.'

It also states

'that well-being includes key aspects of independent living, as expressed in the UN Convention on the Rights of Disabled People,' and that

'The approach to promoting people’s well-being...is one that recognises that care and support can contribute to the removal of...barriers in line with the social model of disability',   recognising the Welsh Government's framework for action on independent living, which expresses the rights of disabled people to participate fully in all aspects of life.

Despite this, I continue to hear almost daily from disabled people, communities and carers that they are having to fight for the support and services they need to enable them to lead an ordinary life, because highly paid people in power don't want to share it and believe they know better.

We've had well-meaning legislation that's supposed to be about designing and delivering services with people, rather than for and to them, and yet we hear stories like wheelchair users still being denied access to the coastal path in Flintshire and, as I mentioned earlier, the deaf community in Conwy having had to go to the ombudsman after their council decommissioned their British Sign Language services.

The reality is that more and more people are falling into avoidable crisis, and that there is a need for greater integration, independence and empowerment for disabled people.

Can you wind up, please? 

As Disability Wales state, if the UN declaration or convention were incorporated into Welsh law, this would raise the profile of disabled people's rights within Welsh Government, require consideration of disabled people's rights in legislation and policy brought forward by Ministers, establish an accountability framework ensuring strategic implementation and monitoring, as well as greater consistency across legislation and policy—

Mark, can you wind up now, please? 

—and, finally, strengthen the involvement of disabled people and their representative organisations in informing and influencing policy. Diolch.  

I support this motion. There is, of course, a great variety of disability and, in a sense, every disability is unique to the person concerned. Disabled people face issues in accessing education, training, employment and services, whether public or private. It's true that the rights of disabled people have improved over the last 40 years, although given how they were treated in the past, that's not saying a great deal. Laws sought to deal with discrimination in the workplace and in the provision of services, for instance, and I welcome the excellent move in the ALN Bill to a presumption that children with additional learning needs should be educated in a mainstream school, but much remains to be done.

But, for now, I'd like to focus on one specific disability, that of visual impairment. Only one in four registered-blind or partially sighted people of working age is in paid employment, and this number is falling. This figure is even worse for people who are completely blind. Only about one in 10 people with poor functional vision is in paid employment, and whilst there's a huge disability employment gap—that is the difference between disabled people in work, which is 48 per cent, and the general population, 80 per cent—the employment gap for registered-blind and partially sighted people is nearly double that for people with other disabilities. 

A survey by the Royal Society for Blind Children in February this year found that over a quarter of adults believe that blind children have different dreams and aspirations from their sighted peers. According to the survey, there's also a great deal of ignorance about what blind and partially sighted children and adults can do. For instance, 52 per cent of respondents mistakenly believe that blind and partially sighted children won't be able to live alone in adulthood, travel, cook or take care of finances independently, so you can see how they would be disadvantaged in things like housing, employment and other areas if people around them have those beliefs about their capabilities. Only 11 per cent of people thought that being blind or partially sighted made it more difficult for children to make friends, but, very sadly, the RNIB say that two out of five blind children have no local friends to play with.

A range of projects and programmes are in existence. The Disability Discrimination Act is 22 years old—I know it's been superseded now. Disabled people may be entitled to funding to adapt their homes, et cetera, but so far it's clear that not enough is being done to adapt other people's attitudes towards disability, particularly in the workplace. It's already been mentioned that the convention already applies here, but it doesn't seem to have done very much good, and the things that have been done so far haven't made a great deal of change, certainly, to the employment statistics.

So, while I agree with this motion to incorporate the convention into Welsh law, it would have to be on the basis of a much more proactive initiative than we have seen to date to really, really change the attitude of employers and general society towards disabled people.

Many disabled people have fought their way through huge difficulties and challenges with a determination that would put a lot of us to shame, and those are skills that would be valuable to a great many employers. Simply adopting the convention that we are already subject to will make very little difference in itself. We have to adopt the proactive approaches that have been successful in achieving fairer treatment for other minority groups—laws that are enforced, rights that are actively promoted and upheld, not just written down, filed and forgotten.

Finally, there have been disabled people in this country since this country began, yet they're still arguably the most disadvantaged minority group. That's inexcusable and must change. We've done it for others; we must now do it for them. Thank you.

I'd like now to call on the leader of the house, Julie James.

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd very much like to thank Helen Mary Jones for bringing forward this proposal and also all the Members who've contributed to the debate. It's very clear that there's wide support for the strengthening of the rights of disabled people in Wales.

The Welsh Government continues to have a high regard for the international human rights treaties and UN conventions to which the UK state party is signatory. We seek to reflect both the spirit and the substance of each convention across our policies and programmes as appropriate. The actions of the Welsh Government must be compatible with international obligations, as set out in section 82 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, including the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

A commitment to human rights is built into the DNA of the Welsh Government. This commitment provides a solid platform in Wales to create strong and inclusive policies and legislation. For example, everyone today has quoted the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. Under that Act, as Helen Mary said, when exercising functions in relation to disabled people who need care and support, and disabled carers who need support, local authorities must also have due regard to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. We were very pleased that the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities welcomed the introduction of the Act in its concluding observations, following the examination of the UK's compliance with the convention in 2017. There is also, of course, the Well-Being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, a very important landmark piece of legislation to promote and protect people's rights.

We are taking steps to promote the convention rights in Wales. Our new action on disability, the right to independent living framework and its accompanying action plan, which will be published for consultation later this month, will set out how the Welsh Government is taking forward the principles of the convention, taking account of the UN committee's 2017 recommendations where appropriate. I believe we do already have the mechanisms in place to remain a champion of the rights of disabled people. As I previously mentioned, Welsh Ministers must already act in a manner that complies with the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities by virtue of section 82 of the Government of Wales Act.

There is also the public sector equality duty, which requires Welsh Ministers to have due regard to the need to eliminate discrimination and advance equality of opportunity between people who share protected characteristics and those who do not. This, of course, extends to disabled people, and I'm very pleased that we have embraced across party in this Chamber the social model of disability, which is very much what disabled people themselves want. I was very privileged to be the keynote speaker at the Leonard Cheshire Disability employability for people with disabilities forum in the Liberty Stadium, in my colleague Mike Hedges's constituency last week, where it was made very clear to me by the young disabled people there, in particular, but by a range of people, that they very much wanted to see the barriers removed and not to be enjoined to make themselves better, which, of course, is the absolutely epitome of embodying the social model of inclusion for people with disabilities and for everybody else with protected characteristics.

However, having said all that, we should always be open to opportunities to explore ways of strengthening the rights and protections here in Wales. I do very much support the principles behind the motion, and I'm keen to consider what more can be done to demonstrate our commitment to supporting disabled people in Wales. I'm very interested in meeting with the Member to discuss what further can be done to progress the rights of disabled people. I'm bound to add a note of caution: care will need to be taken to ensure that proposals do not conflict with existing duties or inadvertently undermine them. I absolutely appreciate that the Member has taken that on board. We have a web of existing legislation, and I'd be really keen to work with you to see how we can make sure that they incorporate into a seamless framework and don't inadvertently cross against each other.

We're also heading into an unprecedented and uncertain period for Wales as we leave the European Union, and there continue to be ongoing discussions on a 'no deal' or 'deal' scenario, and until we know exactly what that scenario looks like and what's incorporated, it's very difficult to fully evaluate the future of the human rights landscape in Wales and identify the most appropriate course of action in relation to the rights of disabled people more widely, until that process has come to its conclusion and we know what the situation is and we have some certainty. For that reason, whilst I welcome the motion, I do hope the Member will consider meeting me to discuss it further as we move forward. Diolch. 

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Thank you. Can I now call Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate? 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very grateful to all Members who've taken part in this debate. I have a very short length of time to respond. I'm very grateful to Mark Isherwood, particularly for his points about the gap between policy and reality, and that is why I believe that we do need to move to legislate: because disabled people have to have recourse if their rights are not being met. Now, they do have an element of recourse, of course, through the equalities Act, but that is legislation that's not in control of this place, and I'm grateful also for Mark's support for the principle of further legislation.

I was particularly struck by Michelle Brown's comments about other people's attitudes and how they get in the way. It can happen to any of us; we can have perceptions about what people are not able to do rather than thinking about all the things that they are able to do. I was particularly struck by the point about employers potentially benefiting from the determination, skills and courage of many disabled people who simply to get through their everyday lives face enormous struggles that many of us do not. And, again, I'm grateful to her for her support.

I fully accept what the leader of the house has said about some of the progress that has been made here in Wales. Disabled people's organisations would say exactly the same thing, of course, and I welcome the action that has already been taken. I think, in many ways, disabled people would say that they are closer to having their rights realised here in Wales than they might be in other parts of the UK. However, that said, I still do believe that, particularly when it comes to disabled people's access to public services here in Wales, we need legislation that disabled people can use if they feel that their rights are not being met, because so much of the strong national policy that the leader of the house talks about here is not, in fact, delivered on the ground, and that may be for a number of reasons—it may be to do with resources, it may be do with lack of awareness.

I'm very grateful also to the leader of the house for suggesting that we meet to discuss how to take this forward, and I fully concur with what she has to say about the human rights landscape after Brexit: we simply do not know what that might look like. I fear that in terms of UK legislation we might see provisions weakened. That, of course, would be an argument for us to take stronger action here in Wales. So, I look forward to meeting with the leader of the house to discuss this, and I very much hope that we will move to incorporate them.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the Member's proposal. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, that motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.