Item 6 on the agenda this afternoon is the motion to approve the Assembly Commission's budget for 2019-20, and I call on Suzy Davies to move the motion on behalf of the Commission. Suzy.

Motion NDM6861 Suzy Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 20.16:

Agrees the budget of the Assembly Commission for 2019-20, as specified in Table 1 of the 'National Assembly for Wales Assembly Commission Budget 2019-20', laid before the Assembly on 7 November 2018 and that it be incorporated in the Annual Budget Motion under Standing Order 20.26 (ii).

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the Commission's budget motion for 2019-20 and ask that it be incorporated into the annual budget motion.

As you'll have seen from the draft budget, the Commission is seeking a total budget of £57.023 million, comprising £37.076 million for Commission services, £16.197 million for the remuneration board's determination and £3.75 million for non-cash items broadly over which we have no control.

The increase requested in the budget is within the amount recommended by Finance Committee last year and in line with the increase to the Welsh block. In the context of ongoing work around Brexit and Assembly reform, this has meant strict and better evidenced prioritisation of projects. Some prospective activity could take us into new territory, of course, and in the event of a second phase of Assembly reform involving an increase in the size of the Assembly, we were grateful to the Finance Committee for at least leaving the door open to a supplementary budget, should we not be able to meet the demands within the current budget.

The Commission exists to support the Assembly and, of course, its Members, and the pressure on Members remains significant. Given our relatively small number and complex issues, which we are addressing now, notably Assembly reform, the impact of the UK leaving the European Union, we need a budget that provides the right level of resource to support Members through this period.

Our strategy outlines the budget for the remainder of this the fifth Assembly and the first year of the next Assembly. One of the strategic aims is to engage with the people of Wales and champion this place, helping our constituents understand what we do and why it's important that they understand what we do and to have them participate in our democracy. And we are about to have our first election to the Youth Parliament. Voting is open, and the results will be known in December for this new and exciting chapter in our history. And it flies, I think, in the face of the perception that young people aren't interested in politics when you hear that 450 candidates across Wales are standing for election and 23,000 young people have registered to vote against our target of 10,000, and that's more than some constituency Assembly Members get. [Laughter.] It really is a momentous step in democracy in Wales.

The Assembly also has new legislative powers, which it must use to best effect in delivering a strong, sustainable democracy for the benefit of the people of Wales. So, we think this is a fair budget that challenges the Commission to use resources wisely—that's another strategic goal—to an even more acute degree. So, I would like to thank the Finance Committee for its scrutiny of this budget and its continued commitment to improve the transparency of Commission funding, whilst pushing us to become more efficient and effective in the work that we do.

We note that the committee is content with the draft budget proposals as they are and welcome comments that changes introduced in the 2019-20 budget document contribute to transparency in our budgeting process. We aim to continue demonstrating the openness that we have shown to date and we are committed also to continuing to work with the committee to ensure that budget submissions year on year provide information that the committee, on behalf of the whole Assembly, would like to see.

The committee made eight recommendations, all of which we have addressed in our response. Three of the recommendations requested further information and clarity on particular areas of the budget, including the cost of the Youth Parliament, and, certainly, in due course, we will have a much clearer picture of exactly how the recurring costs will look, and those will be absorbed into future service plans rather than standing alone in the budget as they do at the moment.

Two recommendations concerned staffing: one touched on the findings of the capacity review and whether a voluntary exit scheme for Commission staff would achieve an effective reconfiguration of our staff resources within the cap on headcount for the future; and the other looked at continuing work being done around sickness management and managing staff churn. This work is ongoing and, as ever, the Commission needs to ensure it has the right skills in place to continue delivering all of our priorities and support services.

Another recommendation encouraged the Commission to determine a consistent way of presenting the numbers and the increase in the budget for future years, and this is a principle that we actually share as a Commission. The budget is presented differently this year, reflecting requests made of us by Finance Committee in the past. So, we don't want an ever-changing presentation either, because it makes year-on-year comparisons difficult, not just to make, but to explain as well.

The final two recommendations were concerned with Assembly reform, specifically the financial impact of proposed legislation—our legislation—and an associated financial impact assessment of progressing this work. The Finance Committee requested sight of our outturn figures on this work, and how it might differ from the actual budget provision, and of course we'll be happy to provide that information when it's available. As an AM myself, I certainly welcome detailed and well-evidenced and well-explained financial impact assessments.

The major change in the presentation of course has been—well, not just the presentation—the use of the remuneration board's determination figures. And where the full amount of the determination is not spent, then it will not be drawn down on other Assembly priorities; it will remain in the block grant. The flip side of that, which actually was something that the Finance Committee concluded itself, is that if there are any unexpected determination costs, they should not be met from the Commission's operational budget. So, if unexpected costs do arise, and the determination spend exceeds its allocated budget, if we cannot manage that within an operational budget—if it's a very small amount—we will seek a supplementary budget.

We are, as ever, open to suggestions on how to improve our budgeting process, and willing to answer any questions that Members may have. In the meantime, I am happy to put this budget forward on behalf of the Commission, and reiterate our commitment to working in a way that is open and transparent, delivering the best possible value for money for the people of Wales.

Thank you. Can I now call the Chair of the Finance Committee, Llyr Gruffydd?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’m very pleased to speak in today’s debate. As a new member, and new Chair, of the Assembly Finance Committee, this is the first time I’ve been involved in the scrutiny of the Assembly Commission's budget in this way, but I do understand that the Commission has been subject to thorough scrutiny by the Finance Committee over the past few years. Members were keen to ensure that our report did reflect the fact that we feel that there is a culture change happening within the Commission, ensuring a much more transparent approach to budgeting, and we want to commend the Commission and the chief executive on that. Turning, therefore, to some of our specific recommendations.

One of the areas that has drawn criticism in previous years has been the approach to funding projects, as we've just heard really, through utilising underspends from the determination to top up the Commission's budget. This year, the Commission has changed the way it budgets, with clear separation between the budget of the Commission and the determination. So, rather than utilising the underspend from the determination to fund projects, a project fund has been included, and a specific budget line for the remuneration board's determination.

In light of the recent changes to the determination, the Commission would have seen a likely reduction in the size of this underspend. However, we are pleased to see these changes. These changes have resulted in some presentational issues with this budget, in the way in which spending is detailed, and our first recommendation asks for consistency in budget presentation, and the Commission of course has accepted this recommendation.

The committee made recommendations in relation to specific workstreams, namely the projects under public information and engagement, and the Youth Parliament costs. The committee thought these areas lacked clarity. We requested the final budget be updated in relation to public information and engagement, and, whilst further information has been provided to the committee, I am disappointed that the actual recommendation to update the budget documentation has not been implemented. The Commission's response provides additional costs on the Youth Parliament; however, it remains unclear how these costs have been established. I note that costs will be updated after the first residential meeting of the Youth Parliament, but we do remain concerned that the basis for the costs identified seem to lack a substantive evidence base.

The budget refers to a possible voluntary exit scheme in the final quarter of 2018-19. The committee recommended that staffing decisions should be given serious consideration, and any voluntary exit scheme should clearly link to the capacity review. The response still doesn't provide clear links. However, I do recognise that this may relate to sensitive information in relation to staffing. And on staffing, of course, we have previously requested that the Commission doesn't increase the head count of staff within the Assembly, and we are pleased that the head count has remained at 491. We recognise that there have been, and will continue to be, challenges ahead, but we welcome the commitment from the Commission to only revisit the cap of 491 in exceptional circumstances.

Recommendation 4 of our report referred to the costs of the Legislative Workbench software. And I am pleased that the narrative surrounding this has been updated to clarify the resource committed by the Welsh Government and that committed by the Commission. This is clearly a hugely important area to us as a legislature, and clarity, of course, in that respect, is very, very welcome.

We note the possibilities for potential in-year supplementary budgets, and recognise that these relate to pension scheme changes, and changes to accounting rules as well. We welcome the early notice of the possibility of those supplementary budgets coming forward.

Finally, the committee has previously recommended that the Commission's budget doesn't exceed the increase in the Welsh block grant, and we've commended the Commission on budgeting within 1.6 per cent for 2019-20. However, the response of the committee states that they will ensure that the Commission's operational budget increases in line with the Welsh block grant. The 'response of the Commission', I should have said. And as a committee, we're a little bit concerned that there is an assumption there that the budget should automatically increase. The budget, of course, should remain within the block grant, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Commission should automatically assume that their budget increases at the same level. So, I very much hope that the culture change that I referred to at the beginning of my contribution continues, and that our recommendations as a Finance Committee can contribute positively to the continued strengthening of the Commission's budgeting process. 

I welcome the budget proposals. Yes, the settlement will be difficult for the Commission to work within. I have no doubt they'll have to make some very difficult decisions. Welcome to the world of the rest of the public sector. It cannot be immune from the problems and difficulties caused by austerity as the rest of the public sector is facing. I said last year that the Commission's budget could not be immune to the real-term cuts in expenditure that many public sector bodies, which we all rely on, which we all have a very high opinion of, and which we all need, are facing.

I'm very pleased to see the end-of-year underspend in the remuneration board's determination because there was a level of inevitability about that underspend, in that the budget was based on people being paid at the highest point on the grade for all staff, and anybody who was joining was starting at the lowest point. So, there was a level of inevitability about that, which was not good for budgeting for the Assembly and didn't hold us in the best light.

I'm very pleased to see that the budget has been produced to mirror the increase in the Welsh block grant. Llyr Gruffydd wasn't there last year, but one of the things we said was that we didn't want it to exceed that. I think the expectation was that 'not exceed' meant equal it. I think that's the view that was held by the Commission as well, that that's what our view was—that we would expect it to move in the same direction. But there are pressures on the Commission budget. We keep on asking them to do more and more, but we don't want give them money for it. But I'm sure there's not a local authority leader in Wales who would not be saying exactly the same thing. So, it is difficult, and I congratulate both the Commission staff, the chief executive, and the Commissioners, for bringing a budget in like this. It's going to be difficult, it's going to take managing, but I think that we cannot treat ourselves differently to the way we treat the rest of the public sector in Wales. And, so, I would urge Members of the Assembly today to support this budget. 

Thank you. Can I call on Suzy Davies to reply to the debate?

Thank you very, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm pleased to hear, Llyr, that you appreciate the work that we have been doing to respond to the committee's concerns. 

I'll just turn straight away to the Youth Parliament. Of course, this is the first time we've done it, and it's the first time anybody in an Assembly of this size has done quite what we're doing as well. If you remember, the way that we are constructing this is quite different from existing examples with the UK Parliament, and even what Scotland is attempting to do. So, I hope you will bear with us in giving you specific figures. I think it would be perhaps unfortunate to expect us to update you week-on-week on how we're spending on this. Please come back and scrutinise us in PAC next year, when we will have actual figures to give you. And, of course, the figures aren't actually plucked from thin air. They are taken from examples, well, estimates, of how much work individual members of staff here will need to do in order to work in the various constituencies, and with the bodies who aren't constituency—

Will you take an intervention?

By all means.

Thanks, Suzy. David Rowlands and I and Mohammad Asghar visited the King Henry VIII Comprehensive School in Abergavenny regarding the Youth Parliament to speak to some of the new candidates and I was really impressed by their attitudes. So, I think we fully understand the pressures on the Commission in trying to do something totally new. So, there was no suggestion within our report that innovative areas like this shouldn't be pursued by the Commission. I understand that, as Mike Hedges said, times are tight, but something like that is well worth pursuing, so we fully understand where you're coming from in terms of problems with budgeting. 

Well, I'm absolutely delighted to hear that, Nick, because, of course, this is one of the major steps forward for this democracy that this place has actually voted for. To think that we're actually bringing it in in its inaugural year for £100,000 with running costs after that of about £50,000, I think, from where I'm standing, that actually sounds more than value for money. Obviously, there's a pressure on us now having budgeted for those figures to make sure that we stick somewhere pretty close to them anyway, and we look forward—if that is that the correct phrase—to answering questions on that next year. 

Regarding staffing and the voluntary exit scheme, any decision is related to the capacity review. It's one of the things that gets taken into account in the prioritisation of just about anything now, because I think we would all accept that the skill sets needed within the Commission staff now to help support us, as Members, in what is going to be a completely different institution from 1999, are considerable. There would have been an argument, I would say, for saying that we did need additional staff for this, but having made the commitment to stick to 491, how those 491 are utilised is a considerable challenge actually, and I'm hoping for Assembly support in the way that we're doing that. 

Sticking to the Welsh block grant, I think our commitment was not to exceed it; it wasn't necessarily to match it. But I think we've done pretty well to come in on this, bearing in mind, as a couple of Members have said here, including you, Mike, how difficult this is, and I'm hoping you'll be employing the same level of scrutiny and the same arguments about bringing things in on a sixpence to the other 99.7 per cent of the budget that will be affecting this place, and I'm sure you will. 

The other thing perhaps I might have mentioned in my opening remarks, and I just want to raise it here, because you mentioned it, Mike, is that we are no longer budgeting for 100 per cent of the remuneration board's determination figure for reasons that have been put forward very persuasively by the Finance Committee in the past. So, I thank you for acknowledging that, and a similar figure has been included for churn within Commission staff as well, so that it's not just Assembly Members and their staff that are being treated in that way. We are—. The Commission staff are treated in the same way.

So, I'm glad you recommended this budget for acceptance. I obviously do as well, and I'd be grateful for all your support later on at voting time. Thank you. 

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.