Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport – in the Senedd at 1:39 pm on 28 November 2018.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:39, 28 November 2018

The Minister for culture is not here to answer the question that was expected to be asked at this point, so I will reorder them temporarily and ask Rhun ap Iorwerth to ask his question to the Cabinet Secretary. 

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

Diolch yn fawr.

I'm sure you don't need me to update you on the situation on the railways in Wales this morning, but I'll run through some of the latest problems of Transport for Wales lines: Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury trains cancelled again; Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno, all trains replaced by a bus; Wrexham Central to Bidston, services affected; Swansea services to Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven and Fishguard disrupted; continued reduced services on Cardiff-Valleys lines, and so on. It's not acceptable. The first words on the statement on the front page of the Transport for Wales rail website today is, 'We apologise'. We still haven't heard that from Government. Would you like to take that opportunity now?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:40, 28 November 2018

Well, TfW, as the managing and operator partner for Welsh Government, would like to apologise, but I think it also needs to be recognised that, in a very short space of time, Transport for Wales have worked incredibly hard to bring a number of trains back into use. Normally, we operate at about 80 per cent of the entire fleet. There are 127 trains in the fleet, so normally we'd be operating at around about 105, with the remaining trains in for servicing and maintenance. I can tell the Member that, as of this morning, the number was up to 96. We're therefore operating at around about 76 per cent. It will return to normal—back to the 80 per cent—within a few weeks, but I think it should also be noted that the cause of this problem—and I do appreciate passengers' patience during this difficult time—is that we inherited a fleet of trains that have been very poorly maintained, which we did not have full and proper access to ahead of inheriting them, and that, along with Storm Callum, and taking over the franchise in the autumn period, presented huge challenges for Transport for Wales and the operator and the delivery partner.

We're also looking into the reasons why this issue affected Wales—the Wales and borders network—more than other parts of the UK. What we have found, and I think I said this in the Chamber last week, is that none of the rolling stock—none of the trains—on our franchise are operating with wheel-slide protection. This is significant because trains across the rest of the UK have been operating with that protection. What we have now learnt is that, potentially, the problems were worsened in Wales because in the absence of wheel-slide protection and as a consequence of a decision taken in 2016—and this is across the UK—to stop applying sand to rails, it meant that the traction on Welsh rail lines has been worse this autumn. So, that's been another significant contributing factor.

I met this morning with Sir Peter Hendy, the chair of Network Rail, and I also met, again, for the third time, with the chief executive officer of Transport for Wales. I received the latest update on services, and, as I say, there have been improvements—significant improvements—in the space of a week, with more than 10 per cent of the trains now having been brought back into use, but this remains a very challenging period due to the dreadful underinvestment in our rail network over the past 15 years.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:43, 28 November 2018

Thank you very much, and we've heard that explanation and we know that there are problems with the trains. Let me ask you this question, though: as a partner in the delivery of rail services in Wales, when Arriva Trains Wales was the franchise holder, did Welsh Government take its eye off the ball in terms of not gauging and not monitoring properly the state of rail in Wales, if it's as bad as you now say it is?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Can I just, again, for the purpose of clarity, outline that there were very few—? First of all, the standards of the delivery of the services were too low, because the contract that was agreed 15 years ago was not fit for purpose, and so, essentially, Arriva Trains Wales had a lower bar to get over. We had no levers at our disposal, no powers and no way of compelling Arriva Trains Wales to up the bar to improve the standard of service, and that includes maintenance. So, in particular in the period leading up to the transfer of the franchise, there was no commercial incentive for Arriva Trains Wales to invest in maintenance over and above what was essential through law. If I can put it this way, it’s a bit like when you buy a used car. You buy a used car knowing that the previous owner may not have maintained it as well as you would have liked them to. And so, what you do is inspect it, and you will factor into it the possibility of having to get new brakes or new tyres, but you inspect it.

The problem with the transfer of the franchise was that Transport for Wales were not given full and proper access to the entire fleet to be able to gauge the condition of it. However, what they did do was make sure that there were enough wheel sets in place. This is part and parcel of the problem right now. The wheel sets were flattened as a consequence of the lack of traction. So, they ordered a sufficient number of wheel sets, but it still takes time to take the trains off the rails and apply the new wheel sets to them.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:44, 28 November 2018

You do provide these reasons, and I'm no rail engineer, so I can't question those details. What I can question though is: what monitoring, what scrutiny, was going on of what Arriva was doing when it was holding the franchise in Wales by Welsh Government? Will you be pursuing Arriva, for example, for the state of the trains as they were left to you as Transport for Wales? And, listen, I want Transport for Wales Rail to succeed. We all want a better rail service for Wales. But can you answer this question: were you ready for the transfer?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:45, 28 November 2018

We were ready for the transfer as much as we could be ready. But I must press again the point that the contract that's been operating for the last 15 years was a dreadful contract, with a very low base and a very low bar for them to get over. We have improved the contract considerably this time around. Let me put it this way as well: had we not proceeded with the new franchise agreement, we would have had an extension to the Arriva Trains Wales agreement, so there wouldn't have been the commitment to £800 million of new rolling stock, of new trains; there wouldn't have been the commitment of £200 million to station improvements; we wouldn't be getting new trains in the next few years, and we wouldn't be seeing the Pacers removed next year; we wouldn't be seeing a huge increase in capacity in the coming years as well. Instead, what we would have had is that very low bar applied from the 2003 agreement.

Monitoring did take place, and Arriva Trains Wales, based on the performance matrix, was reaching an acceptable standard, but that standard, in our view, was too low. And I'm on record time and time again saying that that contract dating back to 2003 was not fit for purpose. And now we are seeing the consequences of it. But, equally—equally—through the plans that are put in place, Transport for Wales, the operator and development partner, are addressing them at incredible speed, working 24/7 to make sure that as many trains get back on the rails as possible.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:46, 28 November 2018

The Minister for culture is now in the Chamber to answer the question by David Melding. I'm sure he will want to apologise to David Melding for being late in being here to answer the question. David Melding.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 1:47, 28 November 2018

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. What is the Welsh Government doing to increase sport participation for children in deprived areas in Wales?

Photo of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Independent

I'm very grateful for that question, and I do apologise that I was not here earlier. We are working with Sport Wales as our main agency to ensure that priority is given, both for areas of deprivation and also for age groups where there is a lack of engagement with physical activity. The issue of lack of engagement in physical activity applies throughout the age cycle, regrettably. Some 32 per cent of people in Wales are inactive, and what we are trying to do is work through, with the sports council, and indeed with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, to ensure that the national curriculum and the new development in the curriculum lead to a greater level of physical activity throughout life.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 1:48, 28 November 2018

Can I thank the Minister for that answer? And can I also commend the work of Sport Wales, and the report that was published last week, which at least is looking at the right areas? But it did find that the levels of participation amongst the most deprived children were actually down on where they were last year, and the gap between them and children from wealthier areas—that gap has increased to 13 per cent. And, as we know, even moderate physical activity has been shown to improve a child's skill at maths, reading, improves their memory and well-being. So, these really are key areas. And I just wonder, in response to Sport Wales, what will you be doing, in particular working with local authorities, to ensure that over the next 18 months or so we can see a reversal in the fall in participation rates and a closing of that gap between those children from the most and the least affluent areas?

Photo of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Independent 1:49, 28 November 2018

Thank you for that further question. This relates, of course, to the Government's more general approach towards issues of obesity and of healthy living. And we are looking to trying to establish within the school experience of young people an understanding that participation in physical activity and in the choice of sports activities in school is the foundation stone for a healthy lifestyle. We are now—. In our work with Sport Wales, we are now being enabled to receive more detailed responses to the effect of our policy, but I am fully aware, and have discussed this with the chief medical officer, that we have, in the younger age group, in primary school, a cohort where we must tackle this issue. But I will certainly report back to the Assembly when we have more information on this point.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 1:50, 28 November 2018

I agree with you, Minister, that we need higher participation rates, but I am concerned about that gap that's affecting those from the most deprived communities in particular, and I do think it is an issue for all departments of Government under your direction and co-ordination to look at, because it does need a comprehensive approach—and you've already mentioned health education; it also affects local government and access to safe playing areas—and I just wonder if the Welsh Government might not follow its excellent practice, I think, with the Andrews report, in looking at a particular area—there, culture and heritage—from the point of view of how it can help reduce poverty levels. We do need, I think, to have this type of force to ensure that children that need the most encouragement in terms of their nurture and ability to do well at school through active play and participation in sport—that's the key measure into whether we're successful in our general approach to these issues in, obviously, trying to increase participation in sport for all.

Photo of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas Independent 1:51, 28 November 2018

We are, indeed, implementing the report on the impact of poverty on participation and the work of Baroness Andrews, and she is assisting us and supporting us in implementing that report, and I'm hopeful that we will have evidence that this implementation is going to be effective, which I will, of course, bring back to the Chamber. Thank you.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:52, 28 November 2018

(Translated)

UKIP spokesperson, David Rowlands. 

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, I was unable to question the First Minister in Plenary yesterday due to time restraints, so perhaps I can use this opportunity to question you along the same lines. Why is there a reluctance to disclose the cost of attracting Aston Martin Lagonda to Wales? 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Can I first of all thank the Member, and all opposition spokespeople, for more than two years of consistent and robust challenge? These are the last oral Assembly questions before a new Government is formed, and I know none of the three people who could determine my fate are here today. I imagine they would all remain poker-faced right now, but thank you for your questions and for offering such excellent challenge over the past two and a half years.

I can say to the Member that the reason that we have to maintain the confidence of investors is to ensure that we go on creating as many high-quality jobs as possible and we work with companies to reveal as much information as possible about the support that we're able to offer them, but often it's the case that, due to commercial confidentiality, we're not able to reveal every detail. 

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 1:53, 28 November 2018

Well, I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that rather obscure answer. I, for one, will say that I hope you remain in your position after next week, but I'm sure that many in this house and further afield in Wales would say that it would be difficult to put a price on attracting such an iconic motor manufacturer to Wales. Perhaps I'd go as far as to say you would be justified in spending a king's ransom on such an acquisition. So, again, I ask: why this reluctance to give us the figures?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:54, 28 November 2018

Again, it's because of the need to maintain investor confidence, and, if we weren't able to utilise non-disclosure agreements or confidentiality clauses, we would, potentially, lose out on investment opportunities, and it may well be that we wouldn't have been able to attract Aston Martin, who were—. Aston Martin carry incredible kudos, and, as a result of us being able to secure the new manufacturing facility in Wales with the DBX and the Lagondas, we've been able to further enhance our reputation as a global centre of excellence for the automotive industry, and that, in turn, during these very difficult times, is very important in order to maintain the best possible prospects for other facilities, for example, at Ford and at Toyota. So, we'll make no apologies for working as closely as possible with businesses in landing huge investment opportunities for Wales and in providing invaluable work for hundreds upon hundreds of skilled Welsh workers.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 1:55, 28 November 2018

Well, Cabinet Secretary, I feel I may be echoing some of your sentiments there, but, Cabinet Secretary, is it not time to silence your critics and point out that bringing Aston Martin to Wales opens up the possibility of attracting other iconic names and high-profile companies to invest in Wales? These are the companies that can help bring long-term quality jobs and wealth to the country. Later today, we debate the Economic, Infrastructure and Skills Committee report on selling Wales to the world. What better way is there to reinforce Wales's credentials as an outward-looking progressive country than to have such a prestigious company locate here? So, will you take my advice, Cabinet Minister, which is, quite simply, publish and be damned?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Thank you. I will take that advice; I think it's absolutely essential that we promote Wales alongside key flag carriers of the economy. Aston Martin is an obvious one; we could include with that the likes of Airbus, we could include QinetiQ and Raytheon, and many other excellent businesses that showcase advanced manufacturing in the best possible way. There are other businesses in the creative industries and financial and professional services sectors, and many other sectors, that are exemplars around the world. And, equally, there are some incredible home-grown success stories alongside these; the likes of Admiral and Moneypenny really have attracted huge attention around the world and allow Wales to hold its head up high with pride. I would say to those people who have not welcomed the investment by Aston Martin in Wales that perhaps they should show more pride in the outcomes of this Welsh Government. They may not like the Welsh Government, but at least we land the jobs that keep people in employment.