I'm grateful to the Conservatives for their questions and, I think, general support for this statement and the approach that we're taking. The Member for North Wales started his remarks by questioning whether this was a distinct approach at all, and then, in order to sustain his case, he quoted from a Ministry of Justice document, which outlined the need for a distinctive approach in Wales because of the differences in delivery, structures and policies being pursued in this country. What I will say to him is this: the privatisation of probation has not worked—it's been seen to be a failure. Many of us told the MOJ it would be a failure at the time, and now the MOJ, at least in Wales, has recognised that those structures are no longer fit for purpose.

There will be a distinctive approach taken in Wales. I meet regularly with the director of the prison and probation service in Wales. We discuss how we provide a holistic approach to policy, both within the period of incarceration, but also how we then ensure that we have the through-the-gate approaches that support people in their journey out of the criminal justice system. I'm quite sure in my own mind that we're moving away from the dogma of privatisation, and what we are moving towards is a system that is more in tune with the values that will be supported, I believe, on most sides of this Chamber, where we do work with the third sector, but we work within a structure and framework that puts people and not profit first. I hope we will be able to pursue that and continue to pursue that approach.

The Conservatives asked me some questions on the female estate. If there is anybody who wishes to defend the current settlement in terms of justice, one only needs to look at the experience of female offenders to see how that system, and how that structure, fails women today in Wales, and consistently fails women across the whole of the country. Nobody—nobody—can argue that a system that is set up with no facilities for women at all in this country is in any way established to meet the needs of the people of this country.

The system that exists today is not fit for purpose—it never has been fit for purpose. What we have to do in its place is not simply go back to building prisons in the way that some people have suggested, but look for different options and different solutions. The question was to what extent I have pursued this with the Ministry of Justice. I will say to the Member that I've met Phillip Lee as the Minister, I met Edward Argar as a Minister and I've met Rory Stewart as a Minister in order to pursue all of these matters. We have agreed more than we have disagreed in terms of how we take these matters forward.

We are agreed that we need a new approach to female offending and to dealing with women in the criminal justice system. I agree with the points that were made in the previous conversation over questions—that we need a women's centre and not a women's prison, but we also need a range of facilities for women, which doesn't simply include custody. I've visited the Scottish Government and spoken with the Scottish Government about the women's centres and the facilities for women that they have there, and what I hope we are able to do is develop a holistic approach, so that the current tragedy of young people and women in the criminal justice system is something that we can consign to history.