The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Julie James, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

That brings us to our next item, which is the UKIP debate on sewer blockage, and I call on Gareth Bennett to move the motion. Gareth Bennett.

Motion NDM6898 Gareth Bennett

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the report of Water UK 'Wipes in Sewer Blockage Study'.

2. Regrets that, across Wales, there are around 2,000 sewer blockages every month, many of which are caused by people flushing consumable items like cotton buds and wet wipes down the toilet.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to widen work on extended producer responsibility beyond food and drink to include consumable items such as wet wipes and cotton buds.

4. Calls on the UK Government to legislate for regulatory testing of products such as wet wipes and cotton buds; and if such products fail the new Water industry flushability test, producers must package those products with a clear, bold and prominent ‘do not flush’ logo.

Motion moved.

I'm pleased to move today's UKIP debate. As our motion states, there are around 2,000 incidents of sewer blockages in Wales each month, or around 24,000 a year. Recently, there has been coverage in the media of fatbergs, where fat, oil and grease combine with rags and other material in the sewer to clog up the network. There have been tv programmes describing fatbergs the size of a London bus. Indeed, Members will have noticed the extensive work going on in Mermaid Quay, just along the bay, where Welsh Water are having to replace the sewer because of precisely this problem. 

Most incidences of sewer blocking, however, are caused by wet wipes. Items such as baby wipes and cosmetic removal wipes account for at least two thirds of sewer blockages, according to Welsh Water. In fact, the Water UK sewer blockage study, carried out last year, puts that figure even higher, at around 90 to 95 per cent.

Sewer blockages and the resulting flooding are not pleasant. In fact, when sewage enters a property, such as a home or a business, the results are at best extremely distressing and at worst completely devastating.

A large majority of these incidents are, however, completely avoidable. The simple truth is that most of these wipes contain plastic material, such as polypropylene or polyethylene fibres. They do not break down when flushed down the loo, and it is these wipes that, as we have heard, cause up to 95 per cent of sewer blockages. If we were able to eliminate sewer blockages caused by these wet wipes, that would be almost 23,000 fewer incidents every single year.

Of course, part of the problem is that many people don't know that these products simply shouldn't be flushed away. We applaud the work undertaken by water companies so far to increase awareness, but this is a problem that isn't going to go away until we start taking greater action.

The Welsh Government are already undertaking some work on extended producer responsibility. In May, the Minister said that the work to date included six types of food and drink packaging, including drinks bottles and cans and single-use coffee cups. Point 3 of our motion asks the Government to extend that work to include products like wet wipes and cotton buds. We think that companies that produce these items should have greater regard for the entire lifecycle of their products, including end-of-life disposal.

Similarly, EDANA, or the European Disposables and Nonwovens Association, have developed a flushability test and a code of practice for manufacturers. This says that wipes that cannot be flushed should have a clear logo on the packaging, warning consumers that the product should not be disposed of down the loo. Of course, it's not binding, so point 4 of our motion calls on the UK Government to take this one step further and legislate to make this a requirement.

There's been much discussion in the Chamber about recycling, plastic taxes, disposable coffee cups and the like. Wales led the way on the plastic carrier bag charge. It may not have been universally popular immediately, but people soon got used to it, and reusing plastic bags is now second nature to most people. There needs to be a significant culture change from manufacturers and consumers to reverse the growing throwaway culture in our society that is causing this issue of sewer blockage, which we're talking about today, and also causing many other environmental problems. So, we ask Members to support our motion today. Diolch. 

I have selected the three amendments to the motion, and I call on the Minister for Environment to formally move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Julie James.

Formally?

Amendment 1—Julie James

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Notes the Welsh Government’s work with water companies to explore options to address the problem of consumable items causing blockages when flushed down the toilet.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to work with Dŵr Cymru and other agencies to improve public awareness in terms of consumable materials in order to reduce blockages in the sewerage system.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to explore the possibilities of using new taxes to reduce the use of consumable materials.

Amendments 2 and 3 moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'll start by referring to St Asaph in my region. Many of you will know St Asaph—a very small, perfectly formed city, famed for its cathedral and its music festival. But I was quite taken aback, actually, in 2014, when St Asaph was revealed as Wales's sewage-blockage capital—you don't see that on the road sign when you drive in, clearly. [Laughter.] But, the fact was that Welsh Water had actually been called out to deal with 134 blockages in the two years up to 2014 in St Asaph: 71 blockages were reported in 2013-14, and that was up from 63 reports in 2012-13. Those incidents had led to seven incidents of flooding near homes or businesses, and we've already heard how nasty that can be. But, of course, St Asaph is only one community, and we have hundreds, if not thousands, of communities in Wales. So, you multiply that up and no wonder that companies such as Dŵr Cymru are dealing with around 2,000 blockages a month.

Dŵr Cymru, in response to the situation in St Asaph, launched a major campaign to reduce the blockages. The Let's Stop the Block campaign is one that many of us are now familiar with, I'm sure, which aims to transform customers' behaviours when it comes to putting things down the toilet, and disposing of fat, oils and greases as well, of course, which is a major contributor. So, that campaign included interactive lessons with Welsh Water's education team; there were fun community events; competitions; advertising; posters were going up, explaining to residents what they shouldn't put down the toilet; and the company even visited homes and businesses directly to talk to residents and to talk to businesses to explain to them and to share with them some useful hints and tips on how they could stop the block.

We've already heard how everyday items, such as cleaning wipes, sanitary towels and cotton buds, are being disposed of, along with fat, oil and food scrapings, and, of course, this is creating havoc. The city council in St Asaph worked diligently as well, trying to explain to people that everybody has a role to play. Now, that's a clear message that we need to share in this debate—that everyone can help and do their bit, either by reducing their use of single-use items such as wipes, or that they just think before flushing or putting anything down the toilet or down the sink, that they dispose properly of wipes, buds, nappies and, of course, that you dispose of fat, oil and grease in a safe way.

But, of course, it isn't just local residents and citizens who have a role to play. Welsh Government as well has an important role to play in this respect, and we've already heard about the need for clear labelling of non-flushable products, which would be a great help, of course, because we do need that significant culture change not only from citizens, but from manufacturers as well, so that we can reverse that growing throwaway culture that we have in our society that's causing this and so many other environmental problems as well. Legislation around flushability tests and product labelling is certainly seen as part of the solution, as we've seen with the plastic bags levy, which was mentioned earlier, and cigarette packet health warnings as well, which we know is changing people's attitudes in that particular context, and having a major positive impact when it's done well.

I would say there is a slight irony here in that UKIP are bringing this motion forward but, of course, we know that the EU Commission are proposing a single-use directive, which is currently at a draft stage. That includes the requirement to boldly and clearly label wet wipes and other products we find in our sewers as 'Do not flush'. If we end up leaving the European Union—and it's getting a bigger and bigger 'if' every day, if you ask me—then, clearly, we as Wales should look to introduce our own regulations to ensure that all such products are labelled properly. 

I'll speak very briefly to the amendments. I'm slightly disappointed with the Government's amendment that we note the work that the Government and other companies are doing. Of course, the time for noting stuff has passed. I think the time now is for decisive action. Plaid Cymru's amendments refer in the first instance to the need for awareness-raising campaigns, but campaigns of a scale that reflects the size of the problem, which isn't the case at the moment. And our second amendment urges us to proactively consider a levy to reduce the use of disposable materials. We've seen it work in other contexts. It would reduce waste, reduce blockages and generate revenue as well, to either tackle the problem directly or to pay for awareness-raising campaigns. 

I hope it doesn't transpire that the biggest blockage to sorting out our sewerage is the Welsh Government's reluctance to act.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute in the debate this afternoon. In the environment committee, we have looked at this particular issue, taking evidence from Dŵr Cymru and other organisations over the engineering problems that this waste issue causes, but also the financial problems as well, and the public awareness. Lots of these blockages quite clearly happen under our feet in the sewers that go right the way through our cities, our towns and our villages, but then it's the engineering works that we see going on that very often are the first time we realise there's a problem.

And there is much that we can do, and we will be supporting the UKIP motion this afternoon. We'll be supporting the Government's amendment and Plaid Cymru's amendment 2, but we will be abstaining on amendment 3 because sometimes we do just reach for taxation levers. I appreciate there are many good examples that do show that taxation and penalising people can actually have that change that we require, but we do think there's quite a bit more work still to do on that. Again, I do appreciate the amendment does say 'explore', but in the field, in particular, of people with disabilities, for example, and other special cases, I do think there's a need to understand more about their demands and their needs when we're talking about wet wipes, because if you go back 10, 15 years ago, most people probably didn't think of this as a problem at all, as such—it was part of everyday life.

But much like the recycling agenda that we've seen across the country—. I visited a recycling depot on Monday, and it was just fascinating to see how that recycling process is undertaken and how there is virtually nothing that can't be recycled now. There is an end use for it, whether it be black bin bags going into energy use, or whether it be the blue bin bags, in this case—it was in Carmarthenshire, this particular site was—and all the contents that were in that bag were to put to some form of recyclable commodity that had a value to it. If you'd said to someone 20 years ago about the recycling agenda, they'd have looked at you completely dumbfounded that you could turn that waste into value and, actually, we just chuck it all in the bin and someone comes along once a week, picks it up, takes it away and it someone else's problem. In fact, as you came in—[Interruption.] I think John's watching the football, is he? Who's winning, John? [Laughter.] [Interruption.] Get in the support. Actually, it's not quite five o'clock yet, and I don't think a certain individual's on their feet in the House of Commons yet. They will be shortly. [Laughter.]

But going back to the agenda item that we're talking about here, it is really important that we do make progress because this is a big, big issue when it comes to costs that have to be diverted into re-engineering our sewage and dirty water system when that valuable resource could be put into many other beneficial uses. There's only so much you can spend in the waste water treatment system, and if that money's going into something that we as consumers can make a difference over, then surely that makes perfect sense.

Plastic bags—[Interruption.] I know it's a brilliant speech John, but—

All I'll say is three strikes and you're out. [Laughter.]

It's off, Llywydd.

I well remember being on the first Petitions Committee in this institution, and we had the plastic bag charge come forward then. And, actually, if you went to a supermarket 10 years ago and you asked for a plastic bag you were expecting to receive that, and actually it was rather odd if you didn't get a plastic bag. Today, if you stand at that counter and ask for a plastic bag, you are looked on, I wouldn't say with disdain, but curiosity because we know the damage that plastic bags do, and it's a source of great pride that people actually take their own reusable bags to the supermarket. And so, on this particular debate, I do think we need to create that change in culture, that throwaway culture that we have at the moment, and it is around public awareness in particular and information about the damage that wet wipes and plastics in particular do cause to what isn't a visual problem but a problem that's happening under our very feet and depleting our valuable infrastructure.

I would draw the Chamber's attention to the actions of the UK Government and the UK Government's commitment in this particular field. It does have a commitment to eliminate all avoidable plastic waste by 2042. It has launched a consultation in particular around this particular area to see what action can be taken, and in particular around labelling. So, it's not just the European Union, as Llyr pointed to; the UK Government are actually taking great steps in this particular field via the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Michael Gove.

And so I very much hope that the Welsh Government will be working hand in glove with the Welsh Government and other Governments across the UK, because it's not just in Wales that we need to see that change; it's across the whole of the United kingdom that we need to see that change. And where there is best practice, that best practice can be enrolled here in Wales. So, we have no hesitation on these benches today in supporting the UKIP motion that has been brought here and supporting amendments 1 and 2 but abstaining on amendment 3.

Plastic pollution and littering from flushed wipes are on the rise. Last year, the Marine Conservation Society recorded that over 14 wet wipes were found per 100 metres of coastline, a rise of 700 per cent over the last decade.

Most people have seen or will have heard of the massive problem of plastic polluting our oceans, and the problem obviously isn't confined to cotton buds and wet wipes, as we heard in the debate earlier. The use of wet wipes has increased dramatically, and there's been a huge growth in the number of these products being sold, with major advertising campaigns from manufacturers and the cosmetics industry further increasing demand.

Turning to the amendments, Labour's amendment is simply complacent, and it demonstrates that Welsh Government are looking at symptoms rather than causes. These wipes and other items are in the sewage system in the first place because people put them there. Unless Welsh Government find ways to get the message through to the public that these items should go in the bin rather than down the toilet, the problem is only going to get worse. The water companies can tell Welsh Government what the extent of the problem is, but they can't control what people put down the toilet and, therefore, into the public sewer. To be fair, neither can Welsh Government, but they are in a much better position to educate the public than the water companies. It's for that reason and the fact that it would cancel out our call for more work on extended producer responsibility that we are unable to support amendment 1. We will however be supporting amendment 2.

Turning to amendment 3, proposed by Plaid, regarding the exploration of new taxes to reduce the use of consumable materials, I think everyone in this Chamber can probably agree with us that the waste created by humans shouldn't end up in our environment. It's all about finding the appropriate solution, and that could be a combination of measures, but I question how effective new taxes would be at reducing the use of items like wet wipes and cotton buds. These aren't high-priced items, where even a very high tax would increase the price sufficiently to reduce usage significantly. True, some people will be priced out of buying these items, but do you really want to price out the very people who might need them the most and may be on a low income? We don't want to do that, which is why we'll be voting against amendment 3.

In my view, Welsh Government and the water companies need to adopt a two-pronged approach. At the same time as educating the public about the costs and consequences of flushing away items that belong in the bin, Welsh Government and the water companies need to work with the manufacturers of these items to create alternatives that won't block sewers on the way to the treatment plant, even if they are flushed down the toilet. Thank you.

I call on the Minister for Environment, Hannah Blythyn.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I start by thanking Members for bringing forward this debate and everyone that's contributed? Nothing screams Christmas more like a debate on sewer blockages, but, in all seriousness, though, we know that a significant rise in the use of wet wipes and other hygiene products in recent years has resulted in an increase in the flushing of such items down the toilet, where they end up in the public sewer network, causing the blockages and problems that we've discussed here this afternoon.

No matter what it does say on the packaging, most of our personal healthcare and beauty products should not be disposed of down the toilet. Wipes and other so-called 'disposable' products are the main cause of sewer blockages and emergency call-outs to sewage pumping stations. The results are often, as we talked about today, costly in maintenance, repairs, flooding and environmental pollution. More than three quarters, 80 per cent, of sewer flooding in England and Wales is due to blockages in sewers and blocked sewers, costing Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water around £7 million per year. And Gareth Bennett mentioned the fatberg that Dŵr Cymru have been dealing with just around the corner in Mermaid Quay as an example of what can happen.

To help improve the resilience of the sewer system, the twenty-first century drainage programme, supported by Welsh Government and made up of over 40 organisations, developed a framework for drainage and wastewater management plans. These plans will provide the basis to more collaborative and integrated long-term planning by companies relating to sewerage, drainage, flooding and protection of the environment. Water and sewage undertakers have agreed to prepare a pilot drainage and wastewater management plan by 2022, and we will encourage them to include robust approaches to increase the resilience of the sewerage system against any blockages.

But, as we've discussed today, part of the challenge is awareness and around educating the public on what not to put down the toilet or drains. The twenty-first century drainage programme recognises that a change in behaviour is needed to reduce blockages and pollution, including raising public awareness about the most environmentally friendly types of hygiene products and how to correctly dispose of them. Water companies themselves recommend only flushing the 'three Ps' down the toilet. That is: pee, paper and poo.

A recent campaign to improve public awareness and stop—I'm glad people sniggered. [Laughter.] A recent campaign to improve public awareness was 'Let's Stop the Block' by Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water. Much of these targeted messages are needed if we are to see a difference, and one of these campaigns I experienced when I was—. They showed an eco-summit during the Volvo Ocean Race and it was aimed at secondary school students and it was aimed at educating them what you can and can't put down the toilet, and they'd done it in a way that the toilet was the desirable nightclub that everybody wanted to get into and the bin was the less desirable nightclub. But I won't go into detail of what was let in each nightclub at this point, but you can watch it online, if you want to see.

The Water UK wipes and blockage study recommended that polyethylene and polyethylene fibres should not be included in any product labelled as 'flushable' and there should be requirement to clearly display the 'Do not flush' logo on the front of packs of all non-flushable wipes. However, more work needs to be done with the industry, such as a recognised test to determine whether or not a product is truly flushable. 

I support the principle of legislating to implement the changes needed in this area if necessary, feasible and appropriate. Extended producer responsibility is a means of addressing this through producers bearing the full net cost of the end-of-life management of the product and its packaging. It can be used to drive up recycling rates, promote the use of recyclable materials, and, to some extent, to pay for litter clean-ups. Llyr Gruffydd, regarding your contribution that the European Commission is currently considering including a requirement to extend EPR for wet wipes plus a range of other non-packaging items and the proposed directive on single-use plastics—it's a complex area and it would be premature to take this forward until the directive is made at this stage, but, clearly, it's something that we can revisit and look into in the future.

Members will be aware that the Welsh Government is considering the potential for a disposable plastics tax as part of its work to develop new taxation powers. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance held an Assembly debate last year to begin a national conversation about the opportunities that new taxes might provide for Wales and announced his intention to test the Wales Act powers with a vacant land tax proposal, while considering options around possible disposable plastic taxes. The Welsh Government is now assessing the detail of the UK Government's approach to possible single-use plastics taxation measures to consider the best way forward for us. It's important that the Welsh Government continues to play a part in the processes of engagement, policy development and the implementation for any taxation measures in this area. Any new tax proposal would need to go through the same process as the vacant land tax proposal, where we need the permission of both the Houses of Parliament and the UK Government. In seeking the devolution of the necessary powers, we would need, for the potential of such a tax, to help achieve our ambitions for Wales. However, taxes are not the only solution and not a panacea; they're part of a wider landscape of regulatory and other levers being considered to change behaviours, and they're not the only option for making improvements on the issues created by plastic waste.

As the amendment recommends, we will continue to explore the potential for disposable plastics taxes, and, most importantly, what will be central to the approach taken in Wales will be to ensure that the right steps are taken on improving Wales's role in leading the waste agenda. The Welsh Government is concerned about the environmental damage caused by wet wipes and cotton buds and welcomes the Water UK report. More detailed work needs to be done to explore legislative options that can be taken forward by the National Assembly to address this problem in Wales. The Welsh Government will be taking this forward next year and working with the UK Government and the water industry to develop practical options to flush this out.

Neil Hamilton to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Well, it's been an interesting, informative and enlightening debate, and UKIP has brought this debate forward in a spirit of consensus at this time of year, when the spirit of goodwill should suffuse us all, and it seems to have done so. Even though we can't accept all of the amendments, at least we managed to avoid the 'delete all', which usually is the preamble to all the amendments that are put down to our own motions. So, I can welcome that, at least. In the era when I was growing up as a small boy, of course we didn't actually throw away a lot of waste; I was always taught not to leave anything on my plate, so we didn't actually put fat down the sink, or anything of that kind. These are problems of modern life and a developing economy.

I'd like to thank all those who took part in the debate, and I thank Llyr Gruffydd for the information that St Asaph is the waste blockage capital of Wales, and that certainly was news to me. But it does, I think, illustrate the extent of the problem—even a small place like St Asaph can have a big problem of this kind. I shall certainly draw Nick Ramsay's attention to the problem of putting baby wipes down the loo and so on, as he can, I think, point the way forward in his own household, and hence to the rest of Wales. But Llyr Gruffydd referred, in the course of his speech, to an EU directive, and I sensed a kind of joshing in the way that he spoke about that, as though UKIP shouldn't be supporting anything that the EU is in favour of. But, of course, we're not against everything the EU does, just that we want to do it for ourselves, and as he rightly pointed out, we would be able to take our own measures in Wales, if and when we ever do leave the European Union, and UKIP would be an enthusiastic supporter of such a measure.

Andrew R.T. Davies made a good point, I think, that because this problem is largely unseen, it's beneath our feet—or the effects of it, anyway: the development of fatbergs in sewers and so on—we don't actually think about it until the problem is exposed by the need to unblock the sewers and, therefore, the roadworks and excavations that are required to do so. And it's timely, therefore, that we should have this debate. He pointed out what the UK Government is doing in this respect as well, and that anything recyclable should be recycled, but the end date of 2042 does seem quite a long way away—I shall be 93 then, if I survive so long—and I wonder whether that timetable is perhaps a little too dilatory.

I'd like to thank John Griffiths, also, for his contribution to the debate today. Although it was inadvertent, at least it lightened the points that we were all putting forward. Michelle Brown I think made some very interesting points as well. I was interested, in particular, in the figures that she produced from the Marine Conservation Society—that there are 14 wet wipes per 100m of coastline, and that's a 700 per cent rise in 10 years. If nothing is done about this, clearly this rate of increase is going to continue. But I do agree with her, and, indeed, with Andrew R.T. Davies, that a tax is perhaps not the best way to tackle this problem, and, in particular, how effective could it be? If the items that are going to be taxed are actually relatively cheap, it would need to be a very significant increase in tax to have any effect upon human behaviour, and that would bear most dramatically upon those on low incomes, which is something that we should all bear in mind when we propose taxes to try and change behaviour. We have to weigh up the competing interests that are in contradiction with each other. Hannah Blythyn played a very straight bat, I thought, very well, as the Minister, and I will certainly remember one phrase in her speech, anyway, about pee, paper and poo being the only things we should put down the loo. I think that comes in the class of 'too much information', but maybe it was right for her at least to insert one memorable phrase into the debate today.

So, I think everybody will agree that this has been a useful exploration of the issue, and I'm sorry that the Government can't be bolder in its aspirations, because deleting our motion, which calls on the Welsh Government to widen work on extended producer responsibility beyond food and drink to include consumable items such as wet wipes and cotton buds doesn't seem to me to be in itself a controversial aspiration, and merely to note Government's work to explore options doesn't really go far enough. So, of course, we can't support amendment 2, because it's not bold enough. There is a problem of externalities, which needs to be addressed, and the Government is in the best place to do so.

So, on that note, I think I will draw my remarks to a close. And this is the last time I shall speak in the Assembly before Christmas, so I'd like to wish everybody a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.