3. What recent discussions has the First Minister had with the Minister for Education about Welsh Government support for higher education in Wales? OAQ53202

I thank the Member for the question. I hold regular meetings with the Minister for Education, including discussions on key issues relating to higher education. We continue to provide support to the sector through the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, which, together with our student support reforms, will create a stronger and more sustainable higher education sector in Wales. 

I thank the First Minister for his answer. You'll be aware that I have on a number of occasions raised concerns about the current situation with regard to governance at Swansea University. Now, obviously, as the education Minister has rightly said, our universities are independent bodies, but it is also true that they are in receipt of very substantial public funds in Wales, and that they are very important national institutions. Can I ask you today, First Minister, to have some private discussions with the education Minister about this issue, to reassure yourself that the higher education funding council, HEFCW, are applying the appropriate level of challenge and support to the university at this difficult time? It is, of course, of strategic importance, and longer term, will you undertake to look with the Minister for Education at whether or not, when this current situation is resolved, there are lessons that need to be learned about the robustness of the governance arrangements at our higher education institutions?

Well, I thank the Member for that supplementary question. I absolutely recognise her own commitment to that institution and the part that she's played in it in the recent past and the concern that leads her to the questions that she has raised with me and with the education Minister. I know that she met with Kirsty Williams prior to the Christmas break. I can give her an assurance that HEFCW, as the regulator in this field, is taking a very close and direct interest in the developing story at the university in Swansea. While those matters are unfolding and being investigated, there's inevitably nothing that I can say or the Minister can say directly on the floor of the Assembly, which I know Helen Mary Jones understands. But I give her the assurance that we continue to be closely involved through the regulator in the unfolding story, and that when the point comes at which lessons about what has happened are there to be drawn, we will work with the regulator to make sure that that happens. 

Actually, I share Helen Mary's concerns about this, about the invisibility of things that might be being investigated there. So, time is marching on, so thank you for your answer on that. 

Since scrapping the cap on the number of Welsh students going to Welsh universities, do you know whether we have seen more Welsh students with the top grades now entering Welsh universities, or applying for them and getting those places, particularly in STEM—science, technology, engineering and mathematics—subjects and in medicine? And do you think that committing now to the recommendations of the Reid review would actually help those premium Welsh students stay in this country rather than going over the border? Thank you. 

Well, Llywydd, the number of 18-year-olds in the Welsh population is going to be at its all-time low in modern times in the year 2020. It's gone from 40,000 to down close to 30,000, but the percentage of 18-year-olds who go to university from Wales continues to be at the top end of historic levels, and we're very glad to see that. As far as the Reid review is concerned, we're already committed to one of its key recommendations, in making sure that we strengthen our position in London through our office that we have there, and that's a necessary thing to do because the future for research income for Welsh universities the other side of Brexit depends upon our ability to help them and them to help themselves in competing for other strands of research income, including new strands, for example, through the industrial strategy. 

I welcome those comments in response to Professor Graeme Reid's report, which was a little while ago—not too long ago. He said in that report that he encountered

'long-standing structural weaknesses in the research and innovation ecosystem that put Wales at a disadvantage compared with other parts of the UK in funding competitions.'

And he pointed to the fact that that had been somewhat 

'masked by the availability of EU structural funds,' as he said,

'whose future remains unclear.'

So, I wonder if the First Minister could give us some further reflections of his, now that a little time has passed on Professor Reid's recommendations. He made three recommendations. Is there more, either in response to those recommendations or something separate, that we can do to enhance our ability to access UK Research and Innovation funds or other sources of funding to establish our research base, which, actually, does quite well in what it's done, but, as that point said, it's masked somewhat by accessing European funds? 

Llywydd, I want to congratulate Welsh universities on the way in which they have been able to use those sources of funding from the European Union, both those ones that come direct to Wales, but, for example, through the interterritorial co-operation programme that we have with the Republic of Ireland, where our universities have been doing world-leading research, for example, in the marine environment and marine energy. While those sources of funding have been available to us, I think it is completely understandable that our higher education sector has made best use of the funding that is closest to hand. And we know, through the work of the chief scientific advisor to the Welsh Government, that the impact that Welsh universities make with the funding they have in research puts them at the top of the league in terms of best use of that funding. Now, the other side of Brexit, we have said in response to the Reid review that any further consequentials that come our way will be put directly to the Cabinet to discuss to see whether we can strengthen the position of research and innovation here in Wales through our universities. It is a challenge for them, as it's a challenge for us all, to move into that new world, but through the Reid review we have recommendations that we can use to try and make sure that we position ourselves in the strongest way we can.