5. What discussions has the Counsel General had with the UK Government regarding maintaining the transferability of professional qualifications for staff working in the health service, particularly nurses, if Brexit does proceed? OAQ53196

Officials are in regular contact with UK Government counterparts on the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, including in relation to the health professions. I and Cabinet colleagues will continue to engage with UK Government Ministers to ensure that Welsh interests are protected and that EU-qualified health professionals in Wales are unaffected.

I thank the Counsel general for his answer, which is, at some level, reassuring. We have, of course, previously in this Chamber discussed the difficulties that health and care services may face if we are unable to recruit staff from the EU. It's been particularly drawn to my attention that this will be a huge problem for the care sector, for the qualified nurses working, not in hospital settings, but in care homes. I hope the Counsel General and the rest of Government will continue with the discussions that he has outlined, because we would not wish to add to what is already perceived by many EU citizens as a bureaucratic process and potentially as a hostile environment—practical difficulties that would arise from the failure to recognise qualifications consistently across boundries.

I thank the Member for her question. This is a very, very important area for the health profession and other profession as well—veterinary surgeons, social workers and teachers all have concerns in relation to this area. The approach that is being discussed with the UK Government is in relation to laying legislation in Parliament, which will ensure that, in the event of a 'no deal' Brexit for example, arrangements will be in place for professionals arriving and operation in the UK to have a means to seek the recognition of those qualifications. She will know, of course, that the regulation of health professions is a reserved matter to the UK Government. And so we are working with them in relation to those, but we absolutely recognise how important this issue is for the health service, allied health services and our public services generally.

I think the Minister's response is of some reassurance, but there is still work to be done, of course. But can I also ask the Minister to give us an update on the settled status pilots for health and for social workers as well and whether the UK Government has shown any unexpected last-minute flexibility towards the issue of the settlement of family members of those workers, as requested by the former Cabinet Secretary, now Minister, for health? What professional, quite simply, would choose to come and work and make this country their own if they're told, 'You're welcome, but not your family'? And, on that important matter of family—and, being proudly part of a large family that includes a couple of generations of Italian-Welsh immigrants who came here from poor parts of Italy, this doesn't affect us directly, but would the Minister care to reflect on the indignity that is now being heaped on people who've lived and worked and paid taxes here all of their working lives now being asked to leap hurdles to prove that they are worthy of staying? When I read stories like that of a 90-year-old Italian Bradford lady who came here from an impoverished part of Italy in the aftermath of the second world war who now has Alzheimer's and is now being fingerprinted in order to prove her identity, I wonder what level of shame, what level of indignity, the UK as a country and the UK Government in particular is now stooping to. 

Well, absolutely. The Member describes the situation, a very traumatic situation for the individuals concerned, with passion, and I would endorse his remarks. I'm aware that a response has been received in relation to the question of settled status and the family challenge, which the Welsh Government made to the UK Government in relation to this, and unfortunately that has not taken us further forward at all. So, we are at completely different, polar ends of the spectrum in relation to this and what we think is an appropriate way of proceeding in relation to this. He will have seen as well in the immigration White Paper, which the UK Government brought out before Christmas, a similar approach to families of temporary workers, for example, which is a system that will be appalling in its consequences for us here in Wales. We are anxious that the arrangements, flawed though they are, which the UK Government has put in place in relation to settled status, should be continued even in the context of a 'no deal' Brexit, because failing to do that I think would put even further pressure on EU citizens who are already living here in Wales and face the sorts of indignities that he describes in his question.