2. What discussions has the Minister held regarding the future of Wylfa Newydd? 259

Diolch. As I outlined in my written statement to Members yesterday, I've spoken with the Minister for Energy and Industry. I've also written to the Secretary of State  for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. I'm pressing for an urgent response by the UK Government on actions that it is taking on this matter. I'm also in regular contact with Horizon. I'll be meeting with the leader of Anglesey council tomorrow. I'll be speaking with the Secretary of State for Wales later today, and I'll be attending an emergency meeting of the economic ambitions board on Monday. Further, we're in very regular contact with the local Member of Parliament, Albert Owen MP, as well as with other Members of Parliament who are seeking to press UK Government to secure Hitachi's investment. 

Thank you very much. We’re expecting an announcement overnight this evening. As a senior member of Wylfa staff told me over the past few days, it doesn’t look positive. I have to say that I’ve come to a conclusion for some months now that the project is in a very serious state. Clearly, Brexit has limited the UK Government’s capacity to push the agreement through and to seek a funding model—people within Wylfa say that unequivocally to me. Rightly or wrongly, the decision by the Welsh Government to call in the planning application for preparatory work on the site was also seen as adding to the project's risk. But the upshot is that a project that was central to economic plans on Anglesey, across north Wales and for the whole of Wales, are now at risk to say the least.

I did appreciate the statement made yesterday. You said that you were speaking to the UK Government. May I ask if there has been more direct discussion with UK Government Ministers today by the Welsh Government and whether you’ve tried to have direct influence on partners in Japan?

May I also get an assurance that the First Minister personally has been involved in today’s discussions as was quite appropriate in the case of Ford this morning? I think it’s very important that the First Minister of Wales is seen to be playing a direct role in negotiations, as well as the role that you, of course, can play as Minister.

Wylfa is central to economic development in the future, but there are other excellent developments happening on Anglesey at the moment. I am thinking of renewable energy schemes, the science park and so on and so forth. But may I have an assurance now that if the worst is confirmed, the Welsh Government will seek to invest further in those proposals and will push for additional investment from the UK Government to put right their failure in delivering Wylfa if that is the outcome?

May I also urge, if we do hear the worst, for a commitment, and that you start now to look for ways of implementing this to give an economic boost to the north of the island, particularly including directing economic development to the Amlwch area, opening the Amlwch line, as a matter of urgency?

Minister, whatever the view on nuclear—and I understand that it is an issue that divides opinion, but many of the people of Anglesey, young Welsh people from Anglesey who will be attracted away from the island by other economic opportunities, will be looking forward to opportunities at Wylfa Newydd. If that doesn’t come about, we must ensure that there is a future for them.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I'd agree entirely with the Member and I'd say to begin with, with regard to this entire project, the reports that we have seen in the news over recent days are merely speculation. However, we do expect a decision to be made, UK time, by around about 10 a.m. tomorrow. I'll be visiting Anglesey tomorrow afternoon to meet with the leader of the council, by which time I expect we will know what the Hitachi board's decision is. 

The reason why I asked for an emergency economic ambitions board meeting to take place as soon as possible, and it will be taking place on Monday morning, was because I'd like to discuss with stakeholders and partners in north Wales how we might go about in the short term, if this project is merely paused, how we might go about ensuring that there are opportunities for people to get work in a similar field in and around Anglesey, until another investor comes forward and takes the project back off the shelf, or until UK Government decides to invest more in the programme and nationalise it. Already they've pledged £5 billion, I don't see why they shouldn't now consider providing all of the financial support and nationalising the project. 

In doing so, I'd like to discuss with stakeholders and local government partners, leaders in FE and HE, and with businesses what additional support we require from UK Government as part of the growth deal programme. I've already said that Welsh Government is willing to increase its support from £120 million on the basis of the UK Government first increasing its allocation to the growth deal. Partners in north Wales have requested £170 million for the growth deal, and UK Government, in spite of this comprehensive ask and programme of projects, offered £120 million. My view is that sum, if Hitachi do pause the project, should be significantly increased.

I think it's also important to stress that my officials have been in constant contact with BEIS over many weeks and months. The Member is right to point out that Brexit has had both a direct and indirect impact on deliberations; indirect insofar as how it has diverted attention and indeed key officials within Whitehall from the Wylfa Newydd project, and that has had an impact, I believe, in terms of confidence in Japan.

Welsh Government will do all that it can to ensure that this project is taken forward. Importantly, we will do all that we can to make sure that the people of Anglesey and the people of north Wales benefit as much as possible from the project. Tomorrow, we'll know whether the project is to be paused. My hope is that it will not be cancelled. If it is paused then work must begin immediately across Governments, with local government and with the business community in ensuring that there are job opportunities in the short term whilst we find a new investor for the project. 

We know that the Holyhead infrastructure prospectus says that the Wylfa Newydd nuclear new build, along with other proposed developments in Anglesey, presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to transform the economy and communities of the island. As you rightly said yesterday, this project has potentially significant benefits to Anglesey, north Wales and the UK. We know that the subsidiary of Hitachi, Horizon, has been investing heavily in apprenticeships and training centres, including at Llandrillo Menai college group and at Bangor University, and we know that the growth deal has been based on the premise that the Wylfa project would go ahead. Dr Jones, at Bangor University, said yesterday that he believed it's more likely to press the pause button than scrap the project because of the £2 billion investment already. But I'm also advised that one of the factors valid to the cost considerations that have led to this threatened decision was the Welsh Government decision to call in plans to prepare the site last month to build Wylfa Newydd, when Horizon said it disagreed with the Welsh Government's reasoning. 

Given your statements yesterday and today that you've spoken with the Minister for energy and industry, Richard Harrington MP, in Westminster, and that your officials are in close dialogue with Horizon Nuclear Power, what currently is your understanding of the position regarding the likely outcome and its impact on things like those apprenticeship placements and the possibility that this might just be a pause rather than a devastating announcement of the project ending? 

Obviously, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for north Wales, for Wales and for the UK. The Hitachi technology is recognised as being the most reliable technology that can be deployed, and it's important that the UK Government does all it can to secure that investment and the Hitachi technology for Anglesey.

I disagree with the Member, and I think the Member, if he had correct intelligence, would agree with me that calling in the planning application was not a significant issue whatsoever. What really changed in the last month or so, or, actually, more than the last month, because I think the UK Government were probably aware of the situation about a month ago—. But what has happened steadily has been a lack of and a loss of interest by the UK Government, both at official level and at a ministerial level. And that was highlighted just last week when the Prime Minister was in Japan and failed to raise this vitally important project whilst on a visit there. And just as I said yesterday—I'll repeat today—this is not a purely commercial matter for Hitachi. This programme would provide up to 10 per cent of the UK's energy and work for thousands of people during construction, and hundreds of people for many generations to come. And so, I would call on the UK Government again, even in these final hours, to make every effort to get the right decision made at the Hitachi board tomorrow. 

The point has been made previously—there is a risk, of course, that we misunderstand the culture of Japan here, because losing face is difficult for us in the west but it’s even more difficult for the Japanese. And there is a risk, perhaps, whilst we think that the project is on hold, that, in reality, that’s their way of saying that it simply isn’t going to happen. So, I do think we need to be realistic in terms of the prospects when we hear exactly what the decision is. But what I’m driving at then is: for how long could the Welsh Government wait while the proposal is on hold? There are courses being promoted and advertised. Do we continue to promote and advertise those for the next year or two? Is the north Wales growth deal, or the relevant parts of that growth deal, to be shelved until we know what’s happening? So, at what point does the Welsh Government accept that we have to draw a line and move on? And, of course, for me, moving on means investing the billions of pounds proposed for the original project into renewable energy sources and unlocking that huge potential that we have here in Wales. 

Well, indeed. I think the UK Government could consider doing just that. We're looking at a number of major renewable projects that could attract UK Government funding. But let's just focus on Wylfa Newydd for the moment because this has to be our key concern over the coming days and, indeed, weeks. We don't yet know what, if you like, 'pause' would look like. Would it entail a pause in the development consent order process? My understanding is that that might not be the case, and the DCO process would continue. I would hope it would continue. Would 'pause' entail telling the apprentices they don't need to complete their frameworks for the time being? Well, again, I would hope that it wouldn't involve that and the apprentices could complete their frameworks and get alternative employment, until such time as the project could be taken back off the shelf. We're going to have to just take a step back tomorrow, if the decision is made to pause the project, and assess what viable alternative investors there might be, and assess whether the UK Government has the appetite to increase its stake in the project, in order to get it off the mark again.

I completely take the point about Japanese culture, and the importance of not losing face. Equally, I know, having spoken with investors in Japan, and having spoken with Hitachi, just how important this project is considered. And what they do not wish to do is to lose face with, as they see it, their British friends, by scrapping this scheme that does have majority support on Anglesey, that could provide transformational opportunities for many, many people, and which would demonstrate a strong link between Wales, the UK and Japan. So, the decision will be made with huge amount of consideration, and I would hope that, if it is paused, it really is just that—a pause—and that the processes, such as the DCO process, can continue, so that the programme can either be taken off the shelf and completed by another investor, or so that it can be taken back off the shelf by Hitachi, once, as I hope, the UK Government will increase its offer.

Minister, you made a big call when you responded to the Member from Anglesey, when you said that the site should be considered for nationalisation. Is that official Welsh Government policy that this scheme should be nationalised, because, as I said, that is a really big call? And I'd be interested to know what the Welsh Government's position is on nuclear power more generally, because, obviously, the current First Minister said that nuclear power should be treated sceptically. And has there been a shift in the way the Welsh Government offers its support for nuclear power projects? Because other members of the Cabinet—the health Secretary, for example, said such comments were troubling, and the external relations Minister said that it would be deeply damaging if such a shift did occur within the Welsh Government.

Can I thank the Member for his question? I stress that the First Minister said that his personal comment was that he was a nuclear sceptic, for very good reason, because of incidents and accidents that have occurred in the past. However, I think it's recognised that our policy is to support the nuclear industry, as part of an energy mix, and a very necessary energy mix. And in terms of my call for the project to be nationalised, I believe that this is something that has the support of my colleagues, but also, more importantly, has the support of shadow Ministers and Members of Parliament, who are seeking to press the UK Government to offer the maximum contribution that it can, and, if necessary, if all other options are off the table, then to nationalise the programme.

Thanks very much.