5. Statement by the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip: Making Wales a Nation of Sanctuary

– in the Senedd at 4:52 pm on 29 January 2019.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:52, 29 January 2019

Item 5 is a statement by the Deputy Minister and the Chief Whip, 'Making Wales a Nation of Sanctuary', and I call on the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip, Jane Hutt.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 4:53, 29 January 2019

Today, the Welsh Government is publishing the ‘Nation of Sanctuary—Refugee and Asylum Seeker Plan'. The plan captures a range of actions to improve the lives of people seeking sanctuary in Wales, and these actions span across Welsh Government and beyond. They reflect the joined-up approach needed to improve and enhance the experience of refugees and asylum seekers in Wales.

The plan represents a significant step towards our ambition of making Wales a nation of sanctuary. The name we've given this plan is a clear statement of our intent. Wales has a long and proud history of welcoming refugees, but we want to move beyond welcoming individuals, by harnessing their skills and enriching our communities.

Our previous refugee and asylum seeker delivery plan was published in March 2016. Since then, the humanitarian concern prompted by the Syrian refugee crisis led to the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee undertaking an inquiry in this area. They recommended that Welsh Government revise its plan to better suit the needs of refugees and asylum seekers in Wales. As a Welsh Government, we also wanted to show stronger leadership and direction in this area, and we agreed to develop and consult on a revised version of the plan.

The nation of sanctuary plan has been developed through co-production. We met and listened to people seeking sanctuary and engaged with the organisations that represent them, both before and during the consultation. Their participation and views were crucial in the creation of the revised plan and I'd like to thank all of them for dedicating their time and to supporting this process. This engagement helped us to better understand the current challenges that these individuals face on a daily basis, which is crucial if we are to provide effective support to address these problems. I would also like to thank the members of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee for their excellent report, 'I used to be someone', and its recommendations, which created a strong basis for our discussions with those seeking sanctuary.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 4:55, 29 January 2019

As always, we must acknowledge that asylum and immigration policy is not devolved to the Welsh Government. We do not control many of the key levers to make a difference. The plan reflects our efforts to implement positive change in those areas where we have responsibility. It outlines our commitment to continue to work with the UK Government, local authorities, the Welsh Refugee Coalition—who I'll be meeting shortly—and people seeking sanctuary to deliver better outcomes.

It is a very challenging climate for refugees and asylum seekers in the UK. The political discourse and media reporting around immigration over the last few years has heightened tensions between communities. Welsh communities have now welcomed close to 1,000 resettled Syrian refugees, with much positivity and very few negative incidents. In that time, Welsh communities have also welcomed many more refugees from across the world who arrived through the spontaneous asylum route. The Welsh Government is opposed to the two-tier system, which penalises those who arrive through the asylum route. In addition, we're also opposed to the closure of the Dubs scheme, which was providing a legal route to safety for refugee children in Europe.  Moreover, we continue to oppose the compliant or hostile environment policies, which counter our international obligations to refugees and asylum seekers. We fundamentally believe in putting people first and not using immigration status as a barrier to support. We celebrate the support that has been given to refugees and asylum seekers regardless of their country of origin, and we aim to help them contribute to Welsh society in a variety of ways.

Refugees and asylum seekers possess experience and skills that are of value to Wales. If we provide these individuals with the right support, we can unlock their potential, with great benefit to this country. One of the key ways to improve support over the coming two years will be via our ReStart: Refugee Integration project, which will deliver an ambitious integration support programme for refugees, primarily in Wales's four asylum dispersal clusters. The project will improve access to language tuition, employability support and local cultural knowledge to aid integration. At least 520 refugees will receive a holistic assessment of their needs and be given targeted support to help their efforts to integrate into society.

The nation of sanctuary plan takes a holistic approach to help the integration of people seeking sanctuary. It will be supported by our soon-to-be launched sanctuary website. The site will provide a wealth of relevant information in one accessible location for refugees and asylum seekers. Ensuring that people seeking sanctuary can develop their knowledge of life in Wales and understand their rights and opportunities is vital to help their integration and settlement. The site includes sections on health, education and employment, as well as language and general information on the culture and history of Wales.

The plan I'm launching today highlights a range of targeted and culturally appropriate support to best suit the needs of refugees and asylum seekers. We recognise the importance of designing and delivering services that take these needs into account: mental health services that address the difficult and individual experiences of people seeking sanctuary; interventions to mitigate the risk of refugees and asylum seekers from falling into destitution and actions to prevent these vulnerable individuals from being exploited; and support to ensure that refugees and asylum seekers are safeguarded, in particular unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. For example, we've provided funding to local authority social services that aims to establish an evidence base for a guardianship service for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. This would include any demand for such a service and what it could look like. The funding is also available for social worker training in age assessment, immigration law and cultural awareness.

We believe the plan is another step in the right direction and will be monitored rigorously to deliver on the objectives and actions. We recognise there is more to be done. I will continue to explore new ways to provide more inclusive services for people seeking sanctuary, and we intend to maintain momentum following the publication of the plan.

It is in nobody’s interest to prevent individuals from seeking to take up opportunities and adding to the diversity of our communities. Eligible refugees and their family members are able to access statutory student support. The Minister for Education has confirmed that our officials are also exploring possible changes to the eligibility criteria for statutory student funding to enable asylum seekers to benefit from the support available.

We recognise that asylum seekers are often isolated and their mental health can deteriorate through no right to work and very little money to access the wider community. The Minister for Economy and Transport has confirmed that officials are exploring the potential for asylum seekers to become a specific group of persons to benefit from discounted bus travel. Persons aged 60 and over or who are disabled and reside in Wales are already eligible to apply to the relevant local authority for a bus pass, which should entitle them to free bus travel throughout Wales.

We are delighted that the UNHCR—the UN high commissioner for refugees—representative to the UK has provided a wholehearted endorsement of the plan. The UNHCR is the UN's refugee agency and is dedicated to saving lives and protecting the rights of people seeking sanctuary. We value the words of support and encouragement from the UNHCR and we appreciate this acknowledgement of our efforts to improve the lives of refugees and asylum seekers in Wales.

Over the next few years, we intend to build upon this plan to ensure Wales is truly a nation of sanctuary for refugees and asylum seekers, for the improvement of everybody in society.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 5:01, 29 January 2019

Thanks, again, Deputy Minister, for meeting me this morning to pre-brief me on this, and no doubt other colleagues from across the Chamber, and for your statement. We've long provided a safe haven for victims of persecution, violence, ethnic cleansing and genocide from across the world, and long may that remain the case, because if we ever lose that, we'll have lost our humanity and true identity.

In your plan, you provide definitions of asylum seekers and refugees, showing that an asylum seeker is a person fleeing persecution in his or her homeland. A refugee is a person who, owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted on grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is unsafe at home. You also state the term 'refugee' includes individuals not recognised as refugees but who have been granted indefinite leave to remain. 

As I warned you this morning, I will therefore question you on the basis of concerns raised with me by a failed asylum seeker at last Friday's Holocaust memorial event in Wrexham, currently going through the appeals process. Would such persons be therefore covered by this or would they not? If not, would you consider that further to see whether they might be incorporated?

Some months ago, in June, responding to a statement by the then leader of the house on Wales—a nation of sanctuary, I noted figures from the previous year that had showed a very mixed picture for resettlement of refugees across Wales. It showed at that point that Merthyr Tydfil and Neath Port Talbot had accepted no refugees, Carmarthenshire was the highest at 51 and Swansea with 33. In north Wales, Denbighshire had 21 but only five in Flintshire and two in Conwy. The then leader of the house replied,

'The Member did raise why there is patchy take-up...but, of course, they're not the ongoing stats.'

Are you able to provide now or subsequently to Members an up-to-date picture, or as up to date as possible, of the stats so we can establish whether the situation is improving in the areas where at that point there appeared to be greater barriers?

You refer in your statement to a commitment to work with UK Government, local authorities, Welsh refugee coalition and people seeking sanctuary to deliver better outcomes, and of course you used the word co-production. You also referred to your ReStart: Refugee Integration project to deliver an ambitious integration support programme for refugees primarily in Wales for asylum dispersal clusters and state that ensuring that people seeking sanctuary can develop their knowledge of life in Wales and understand rights and opportunities as being vital to help their integration and settlement.

How do you also propose to engage with the broader population, because it's clearly a two-way process? Unless we can break down barriers to understanding at home, then no matter how well we seek to integrate our new neighbours, those barriers will persist. So, it is very much a two-way process. 

Much of the heavy lifting across Wales is already being done, often on a shoestring, by a myriad of third sector bodies and partnerships between the third sector and others. So, how do you propose to engage with such projects? I'll give you a few examples. I think I mentioned to you this morning I'm honorary president of the North Wales Association for Multicultural Integration, which has been delivering on this very agenda for a number of years. Last May, I hosted in the Assembly the Let Us Integrate through Music and Art event put on by the North Wales Association for Multicultural Integration and Cwmbran-based KIRAN, the Knowledge based Inter-community Relationship and Awareness Network, aimed at removing barriers that keep people apart and promoting the mutual understanding that brings them together. Last May, I had a meeting in the Assembly with the Welsh Refugee Council, the North Wales Association for Multicultural Integration and the personal support service CAIS to talk about how we can work in partnership to break down barriers and increase understanding of each other's cultures.

Last October, both I and Julie James spoke at NWAMI's annual Celebration of Integration Day event at the Temple of Peace in Cardiff. I closed the event by again emphasising the importance of integration by celebrating our glorious diversity together, building community cohesion and a tolerant society through cultural engagement. So, I hope you will outline further how your plan will engage and embrace those projects already operating across the nation of Wales, doing this heavy lifting to build bridges from both ends.

Finally, if I may, just a question on how we can support within this agenda the local city and town initiatives that are also taking off. You'll recall well how Wales became a fair-trade nation because of the jigsaw pieces starting separately and coming together, with Wrexham as the first fair-trade town and others coming together before Wales could become a whole fair-trade nation. Now, in this case, last summer for example, Synergy in Flintshire, working together to make Flintshire a place of sanctuary for refugees and those fleeing violence and persecution, united not only Synergy members, but the Wales Cities of Sanctuary, Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales, church, charity and action group representatives, Theatr Clwyd and Aura libraries and leisure—again, work on the ground that can further benefit from working with your plan.

And finally—

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:07, 29 January 2019

No, you've had 'finally'. This is the second 'finally'. Come on, move on. Quick.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

This Friday in Wrexham is the launch of Wrexham's town of sanctuary, a campaign to make Wrexham a town of sanctuary and an invitation to local groups and individuals to get involved—a prime example of great work that you can benefit from by joining up the dots, I hope you'll agree.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for your opening words and for the opportunity to have a discussion prior to this statement this afternoon. You do make a very important point about the way in which we support our refugees and asylum seekers, and I think in the plan, as you highlight, in our recognition of asylum seekers and refugees, we use the phrase 'people seeking sanctuary' in our plan, and we're using that as a term to refer to refugees or asylum seekers from any background and in any circumstances. We need to recognise these members, as we say in the plan, as people first and foremost, and, of course, their immigration status is key to this in terms of their rights, their opportunities and obligations. So, we have to recognise this in terms of well-being and protection.

You did ask that first question about the situation where there are refused asylum seekers who maybe in the position I think you mentioned, where they may be under appeal, but there are obviously situations we've raised in this Chamber, across this Chamber, about people in those circumstances, and people have made representations. We can only make representations, as we do as elected Members, and indeed as a Welsh Government, on behalf of those people. But what we need to do is say that we will provide within our powers essential support to refused asylum seekers, and I think that's where all of the services and all of the agencies, as you say, come together in order to provide that kind of support, because there is a danger of trafficking, exploitation, destitution or even serious health conditions arising from people who can't claim public funds, which of course is often the circumstance. We continue to ensure that refused asylum seekers are not denied healthcare; they're entitled to the same services as any other citizen. The plan does contain the action to work towards preventing people seeking sanctuary, including those with no recourse to public funds, becoming human trafficking or modern slavery victims. So, this is a point where we have to look at the holistic approach, within our powers, to the circumstances of refugees in terms of their needs, particularly if they have been refused in terms of their situation.

Now, we do need to move forward, and this plan does, in terms of the ways in which we can help with integration. The ReStart: Refugee Integration project, which, of course, I highlight in the statement, is going to be a very ambitious integration support programme for refugees, and primarily, of course, in the four asylum dispersal clusters—Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham. That's going to provide particular support for, as I've said, at least 520 refugees. The total cost is £2 million, and that is going to include match funding from the Welsh Government as well.

It is about also ensuring that we can focus on some of those key areas, such as housing needs. You mentioned that, of course, access to appropriate accommodation is a key issue for people seeking sanctuary. We're seeking to work more closely with the UK Government in terms of the new asylum accommodation and support contracts, but, obviously, that's something where we're very dependent on UK Government co-operation. But, we can work, particularly in our Refugee Well Housing project, in terms of supporting and funding the Move-On project after refugees receive recognition of their status.

You make a very important point, Mark, about the organisations, civic society and communities that are playing their part. You described that yourself, in terms of the events you've attended and the organisation that you're already a patron of—a president of. I think, also, we need to recognise that, in terms of the Welsh Refugee Coalition, there are over 30 organisations. Many of those are all-Wales organisations, and some are more local.

You also ask the question about the statistics, and updating those statistics that you asked the former leader of the house about, in terms of the interim statement she made on the plan. I certainly will provide the update on those statistics for you,FootnoteLink but I think it is very welcome that we see that we are reaching nearly 1,000 refugees, in terms of the Syrian displacement scheme. That's something that is a result of local authorities agreeing to support and resettle Syrian refugees. Across this Chamber, we will all know where our local authorities are in terms of that support, but I will give you the update on that.

I'm also very keen to support—it goes back to the community—the community sponsorship schemes that are taking place across Wales. I think we saw Wales highlighted in terms of the Refugees Welcome campaign—the growth of community sponsorship organisations was actually started in west Wales, in the town of Narberth, and has spread. Certainly, Penarth and, in my own constituency, Croeso Llantwit are progressing the same community sponsorship. So, clearly, we have a lot to develop as a result of the plan, and I thank you for your questions.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:14, 29 January 2019

Thank you. We are halfway through the statement and we've had one set of questions. I've got a number of speakers. So, Helen Mary Jones.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank the Minister very much for her statement today. There is a great deal to be welcomed both in the actual plan and in the statement. I'd like to apologise to the Minister and to the Chamber for the fact that I've stepped in at the last minute to respond to this statement because my colleague Leanne Wood has had to go home due to climatic conditions beyond her control. So, if I'm asking questions of the Minister that she's already explored—that the Deputy Minister has already explored—separately with Leanne Wood, I hope that she will forgive me and simply tell me to go and ask Leanne. [Laughter.]

First of all, I think, in all seriousness, we have to acknowledge that there are some serious barriers remaining to creating the nation of sanctuary that we all aspire to, I hope, in this Chamber—or most of us at least. These barriers stem from the fact that the UK has had a deeply dysfunctional public debate on migration, including on immigration and asylum, for many, many years. I would slightly disagree with the Minister here, because this is not just in recent years. To my knowledge, this goes back 20 years at least. I can think of some very unhelpful columns written in The Sun newspaper by the then Cabinet Minister David Blunkett, for example, raising questions about civil rights lawyers and the decision to restrict the civil liberties of asylum seekers.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 5:15, 29 January 2019

I do think we have to acknowledge that this is a profoundly political issue. And while nobody in this Chamber could ever doubt the personal commitment of Mark Isherwood to the issues that he's just been raising with the Minister, it is incumbent upon us to point out that he sits in this Chamber in the name of the party that is responsible for the hostile environment and responsible, for example, for the dreadful conditions faced by people seeking sanctuary in some of the Home Office provided accommodation, for example. I know it's traditional in this Chamber, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I support that, to seek to be consensual when we can, but we cannot, I would put to the Minister, address these profoundly difficult issues unless we acknowledge the hostile environment—and I don't just mean the particular hostile environment, but the generally very difficult environment.

So, I'd ask the Minister, in terms of my first question: what can we all do to try and correct some of these misconceptions and some of the prejudices that have led directly to some of the challenges that people seeking sanctuary in Wales face? The Minister's statement mentions that co-production has been key to the formation of this plan, and I'd be interested to hear a little more about how asylum seekers themselves have been involved in the development of the plan and what, if anything, has changed in terms of the proposals as a result of their input. I'm sure the Minister would agree with me that this is crucially important.

The Minister mentioned in her response to Mark Isherwood some of the problems faced around accommodation for asylum seekers. We know that some of that is of very, very poor quality. I was encouraged to hear the Minister say that she is still seeking to be able to participate in the letting of that new contract, and I wonder if she can tell us a little bit more today about what the Welsh Government has been doing about that because it seems to me that it is in no-one's interests, not even the interests of the Home Office, that the Welsh Government should not be allowed to participate in the setting of that contract and ensuring that the accommodation provided is of the standard that we would aspire to, as set out in the plan the Minister is announcing today.

Linked to this issue, the Minister's statement also refers to the big issue of homelessness amongst refugees and asylum seekers and the Minister will be very well aware of the ambitious plans launched by Crisis last year to end homelessness across the whole of the UK. I know that my colleagues have raised this with your predecessor and I wonder to what extent the ambitions and actions suggested by Crisis have informed the accommodation issues that you raise in the report. I think it's very important that we do commit ourselves to ultimately ending homelessness, and particularly for this very, very vulnerable group of people who I am happy, and I'm sure the Minister would be happy, to call our fellow citizens, because they're our fellow citizens if they're here as far as I'm concerned. 

May I turn briefly to two education issues? Under the 'Ambitious and Learning' heading in the action plan, action 8 refers to tackling bullying, obviously in schools, and that must be very, very welcome. I'm sure the Minister would agree with me that this bullying often arises from the ignorance and prejudice that I referred to earlier on and that is that very damaging culture that we have to seek to address. Has the Minister had the opportunity to discuss with the Minister for Education how the new curriculum—the commitment in the new curriculum to helping our young people to grow up to be good citizens—how we can address some of this prejudice and discrimination through that new curriculum and indeed through other measures before the new curriculum comes in, and what measures the Welsh Government can take, particularly to help challenge the rise of the far right? I'm thinking particularly here of young people being vulnerable to those messages when they hear them on social media.

There's much emphasis very rightly in the plan on integration and encouraging people to participate in the community. Of course, essential to that is asylum seekers being able to have access to learning English and Welsh. Of course, the decision has been made to remove the mega grant, which was a crucial tool to enable schools to teach languages to people who have very recently come. How are we going to ensure that the resources are there, particularly for schools, and also for adult learners, to ensure that people can get access to learning the two languages of this country? Because without that no attempt at integration will be possible. 

I've pressed the Minister to work closely with the Minister for Education around the statutory student support. I think it's absolutely crucial that those changes that she mentions in her statement are made, and that asylum seekers and refugees are able to access higher education in Wales. Apart from anything else, it's not in our own interest not to use those skills.

And finally, we know that over 2,000 doctors have been refused visas by the UK Government in what I regard as, frankly, a stupid and self-defeating immigration policy. We know how much we need those highly qualified professionals here in Wales. So far, your party has resisted our calls for Welsh Government to seek to issue its own visas based on our workforce needs, and I wonder, in the light of what you said today, Minister, whether you would consider looking at this again. Thank you.  

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:21, 29 January 2019

Thank you. A large number of questions that I very much welcome from Helen Mary Jones on behalf of Plaid Cymru. I just want to say, in terms of the engagement and co-production and extensive consultation, that 150 people seeking sanctuary engaged with us during the development of the plan. But obviously, I've mentioned that the coalition of organisations on the Wales Strategic Migration Partnership, the Welsh Refugee Coalition and local authorities are very much engaged following the committee's report. Because in 'I used to be someone' the committee said we must seek the views of refugees and asylum seekers, and that's what we've sought to do.

Your points about issues around housing are very important, particularly because that is where the UK Government has clear responsibility. And we have sought to work closely with the UK Government in terms of new asylum accommodation and support contracts but, unfortunately, I have to say many of our recommendations appear to have been rejected. And you will know, I'm sure, that there's been a recent report by the independent chief inspector of borders and immigration identifying that 18.6 per cent of inspected asylum properties in Wales and the south-west were uninhabitable or unsafe. So, in terms of your call to scrutinise on those points—which, of course, I will take back and raise with the UK Government, because, too often, people are forced to occupy substandard housing, or aren't permitted to access accommodation at all. That is totally counter to our aims in terms of the nation of sanctuary.

But I have mentioned already that we are doing more to support the Refugee Well Housing project, and we're repeatedly asking—and thank you again for your support for this—the UK Government to extend the move-on period to 56 days, because that aligns it with other homelessness support, both in England and Wales. But so far, the UK Government has refused to adopt our recommendations. These do not help in terms of the fact that there is a feeling of negativity, even though there are many ways in which we are gaining respect, as you've seen from the UN high commissioner in terms of the way that we're using the powers and skills that we have, recognising the assets of people who come and how they will enhance our Welsh communities, and how we've welcomed them, and counteracting the negative perceptions that, of course, are so unhelpful.

I said in my statement that it's a very challenging climate for refugees and asylum seekers. Indeed, because of the political discourse, the media has a role to play as well as Government policies. I think we have to go back again, I'm afraid, to some of the statements and legislative changes that have led to the hostile environment policies, which, unfortunately, are being implemented, and they are contained, of course, in the Immigration Act 2014. It's now referred to as 'compliant environment policy', but this was about measures to identify and reduce the number of immigrants in the UK. I know that the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee has addressed this.  

Finally, I will make the point about bullying, because this is an issue where, again, with the education Minister, our vision, obviously, is to tackle bullying holistically, addressing the root causes, including those from asylum seeking and refugee families. What's great about the Cardiff City of Sanctuary is that I believe that, now, organisations are getting accreditation. I think even Lisvane comprehensive school—my colleague from Cardiff North. Others are getting that kind of recognition. Schools need to be part of it.

And just on your final point about doctors and refusals of visas, I'm very proud of the fact that, in Wales, we have overcome many obstacles for refugee doctors—and I said that in my statement—to come and work, since I was health Minister, to ensure that we now have a large number of refugee doctors who, actually, have been accepted by the General Medical Council and are now practicing throughout the UK.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:25, 29 January 2019

I'll try and be really rapid here. First of all, can I just welcome the ambition and also the spirit of this statement, and also the work of the committee, which I've now become a member of, and their previous report, 'I used to be someone', which has provided a foundation for some of this? I welcome this because it recognises those who are seeking sanctuary, those who are refugees, as an asset, as a gift, not a burden. Not as people as individuals that we have to begrudgingly or reluctantly take under our wing, but actually that we see their capabilities and what they can give to us as well. Would she agree with me that, actually, some of the best examples of what we're doing in Wales, in individual communities, can show us the way?

I spoke last year, in June, in Ystradgynlais, in the miners' welfare hall there, as part of the Josef Herman Foundation and a collaboration with a film unit there where they'd worked to tell the life story of Josef Herman, who fled the persecution of Nazi occupation of Poland in the second world war to that Welsh Valley community, knowing nobody. He settled there, he was invited there, he is now one of the most renowned Welsh-Polish artists with his artistry on display in the national gallery and elsewhere as well, and the foundation. But it was told by Syrian refugee children—they were the ones who told the story. And that community had once again opened its arms. The south Wales Valleys community had opened its arms to say, 'We not only welcome you, we welcome you and the gifts that you bring and what you contribute to us as well.' And that's what I like about this statement; it's the spirit as well as the practical implementation as well.

Would she agree with me that, as well as taking forward working with the UK Government, which I think we need to do—would she commit to actually highlighting where they need to do signally better as well? Not only in terms of accommodation standards and the hostile environment that we've talked about, but things like the Dubs amendment for children refugees and asylum seekers. We need to point out as well where they're failing if we are to be a welcoming UK as well as a welcoming Wales.

The sanctuary website has been mentioned. Could I just ask for clarity on when that will be up and running? Because that will be very useful indeed. And can I just finally say, then, Dirprwy Llywydd, that I also welcome it because it's not complacent? It recognises that this a big step forward but there is more work to be done. It's not complacent. In which case, where are our next steps, where could she guide us to say, both at a Wales level, but also in local communities, local authorities, third sector, and other partners—where should we be looking to do more to become this welcoming nation that recognises these people for the gift that they bring to Wales and the gift they bring to our communities?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:28, 29 January 2019

I'd like to thank Huw Irranca-Davies for his questions and for reporting on his experience, and particularly that experience with the Joseph Herman Foundation. I think the miners' welfare hall in Ystradgynlais and the fact that all over Wales, as you know, there are communities welcoming Syrian refugees—it's transforming communities as well as transforming lives for those refugees.

I just want to say, on the Dubs amendment, that our latest statistics show that Welsh local authorities are supporting 105 unaccompanied children seeking sanctuary, including a small number that have been resettled via the Dubs amendment. But we have called on the UK Government—. We've objected to the fact that the UK Government closed the Dubs scheme in 2017 because we know that legal routes to safety are crucial for these children and we'd like to do more. Again, it goes back to the UK Government to provide us with the funding for local authorities, because they also would like to do more in terms of ensuring those placements and support.

And we have a guardianship scheme, which is developing. That's a new development, which, of course, again, we're supporting across Wales for unaccompanied children. The sanctuary website will be launched early this year. It's a new site. It's separate from the Welsh Government website. It's English and Welsh, but we will have text-to-speech software in terms of accessibility in many different languages. This is a really important point. Sanctuary is an online resource to support refugees and asylum seekers.

When I met with the Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, John Griffiths, he challenged me, he said, 'You can say all these things, and you can agree that you'll support recommendations, but you've actually got to deliver on them.' I think he's going to be asking me that now. It's absolutely clear what we're up against, but we have to recognise this, as you say, as an opportunity and recognise the assets and the gifts that we have from those we welcome into Wales, which must truly be a nation of sanctuary.

Photo of Michelle Brown Michelle Brown UKIP 5:31, 29 January 2019

Thank you for your statement, Deputy Minister. I welcome the statement and completely agree that we should make sure that Wales is indeed a nation of sanctuary for those who need it. As a comparatively prosperous nation, we have a moral obligation to offer sanctuary to those fleeing persecution or war, and we must do all we can to increase our capability to do so and to offer everyone here, whether citizen, migrant, asylum seeker or refugee, a high quality of life. We cannot and should not turn our backs on our fellow citizens and human beings when they need us, and I'm sure everyone here agrees with that.

In March last year, the then leader of the house said

'I'm proud of the response that Welsh communities and public authorities have made since our last refugee and asylum seeker plan was published in 2016.' 

But how can your Government have been proud of the fact that two of the local authorities didn't accept a single refugee, not a single one, for resettlement in the previous year? Is that really something your Government should be proud of, Deputy Minister? That same year, as a contrast, the then UKIP-controlled Thanet council committed to resettling eight refugee families, more than almost every local authority in Labour-controlled Wales. So, my question to you, Deputy Minister, would be: what does Welsh Government intend to do to redress this imbalance, apart from publishing another plan?

As I said, I believe we have a moral obligation to assist those fleeing persecution and war, but resources are finite, and everyone needs to remember that, for every economic migrant who takes a place in housing, school, hospital and so on, that is one fewer place for a person with nothing, who is fleeing persecution or war, perhaps in fear for their life. This Welsh Government can claim until the cows come home that it wants immigration for reasons of fairness, but in truth it is for cynical economic reasons. It wants freedom of movement because it helps compress wages, meaning that, for many, the minimum wage has become the maximum available wage. Well, I happen to think that when it comes to who should be able to come into Wales, it should be about more than what is good for the profits of big business. We cannot have open-door economic migration and fulfil the ambitions, the very, very, very good ambitions, set out in the Deputy Minister's statement. You can't have both, Deputy Minister.

If we were to limit the number of economic migrants, we could accept more refugees and asylum seekers, without causing a strain on our already breaking NHS, long housing lists and school place shortages. In short, we could help more asylum seekers and refugees if we could control economic migration. For all the talk of what a caring nation we are, in 2017, the last year I have been able to find figures for, Wales only took in 325 refugees, compared with the thousands of EU economic migrants we had to house who use our NHS and other public services. Were we not forced to take EU migrants, all coming from safe countries, I should add, who decide they want to turn up here, we could take in more refugees who need a safe place for themselves and their families.

It doesn't appear to me that Welsh Labour care much at all, when Labour-controlled Wales has only settled such a small number of refugees but continues to campaign for the freedom of movement that leads to councils only being able to take in very limited numbers of refugees and asylum seekers. You cannot expect to be believed when you say you care about asylum seekers whilst all the time being in favour of total freedom of movement from the EU, simply because you think it benefits our economy, when that is causing us to control the number of refugees we accept. As I have already said, we have finite resources, and so the question arises: who do we prioritise? Asylum seekers or economic migrants? Minister, I would prioritise—well, Deputy Minister, sorry—I would prioritise asylum seekers and refugees over economic migrants any day of the week. And that is why I'm asking you to admit that if we want to maintain public services that perform for everyone in Wales, whether citizens or migrants, we have to agree to control economic migration so we can prioritise the refugees and asylum seekers who need us to offer sanctuary and so that we can ensure that that sanctuary's stable and well resourced.

So, my last question is, Deputy Minister: would you be prepared to control immigration by those who simply want to come here so that we can increase and give a better life than we do at the moment to those who need to come here? Thank you. Just answer the question.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:35, 29 January 2019

Well, I think, you know, you started in a promising way but I'm afraid that didn't last very long. And I just want to say something about the kind of remarks that you make and what it means in terms of response in our communities. In the month following the EU referendum, there was a 72 per cent increase in referrals to the Welsh Government-funded National Hate Crime Report and Support Centre precisely because of the kind of ill-founded views that were coming from those who espouse those views. That spike included a rise across all types of hate crime, and if we look, then, at the opportunities that we have to drive out that kind of hate crime, it has to look towards the spirit of the 'Nation of Sanctuary' plan, which, of course, is a plan for all of those who work and make a contribution in this country: for the doctors, for the nurses, for those who work in our care homes, those who work in agriculture; those are the people who we support and they are part of our community and our nation. And it's very disappointing that you choose to bring these ill-informed views that can then lead to that spike in hate crime that we so abhor in this Chamber.

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 5:37, 29 January 2019

I want to tell you a very short story about my father who was born and brought up in Llanbrynmair and who was called up to fight in the second world war and found himself imprisoned in Stalag 22 for four years and managed to escape from Poland to Scotland. He only was able to do that because he had the help and kindness of strangers in a strange land. He continued all his life and was out there to fight and help retain peace and understanding rather than the promotion of hate and ignorance. And as a consequence of that, he also remained a huge supporter of the European Union that was founded on those very principles of peace and understanding.

We have heard today that there are many, many Syrian refugees in this country, and they are here, equally, because of the consequences of war. We, rightly, make those people welcome. But the issue that I would like to raise here today is that in welcoming those individuals, we do recognise, and we have, in this statement today, the unaccompanied minors. I'm really, really pleased that we in Wales are giving some guardianship support and service to those individuals, because I don't know how many people here in this room would understand how very difficult it is to tell and retell your story about how you've ended up in a country completely traumatised.

I know that my father would understand that, because he couldn't talk about it. So, we need to keep those people, those children safe. The closure of the Dubs scheme is absolutely scandalous because it was, particularly, to keep identified children at the source, where they were identified as being in danger, to travel to safety. I cannot understand how anybody could close a scheme that he himself has identified as being alive today as a consequence of. That only leaves the gates open to human traffickers, and to those young people ending up in slavery. And there's plenty of evidence to support that that is exactly what happens. There's also plenty of evidence to support the fact that unaccompanied minors who end up in the care system are actually going missing. And there's plenty of evidence, also, that supports the fact that, of the young females who find themselves going missing, 86 per cent of them end up in the sex trade.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:40, 29 January 2019

I want to thank Joyce Watson for that very moving and personal account. It's an account I haven't heard before and I don't think, possibly, those in this Chamber have heard it. It's an account that is on the record about your father's experience. It says everything that we want to do to address and to enable us, in tribute to the memory of what he himself has stood up for—. And you are the product, Joyce, and you're here, I'm sure, because of him. 

It's important that you mentioned the Dubs scheme, because it did actually offer a very small but very crucially important signal that, actually, in the UK, we care deeply about the plight of these children, and there was such a strength of feeling when the decision was made by the UK Government to close the scheme. We need to go back to reopening that scheme, to calling for that scheme to be reopened, but we can do things in Wales, and that's why we have responded to the committee inquiry recommendation, as I said, to develop this guardianship service for unaccompanied asylum seeking children.

And the 'Nation of Sanctuary' plan does innclude this action. It's going to fund local authorities this year, it's going to support a pilot measure in respect of guardianship and it does aim to establish the legal needs of those unaccompanied asylum seeking children and explore the demand for a guardianship service and what such a service should look like. And we have already agreed funding; we've provided £550 million over the past two years to assist local authority social services, funding placements, social work training and foster care training. So, this is a very important outcome of the committee's work and of our consultation with those in the Welsh Refugee Coalition to lead us to this point.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:42, 29 January 2019

Thank you. I will call the Chair of the committee, John Griffiths, seeing as his report has been mentioned several times, but, John, can you just ask a couple of questions, or a question, really? Thank you.

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour 5:43, 29 January 2019

Yes, certainly, Dirprwy Lywydd. I very much welcome your statement today and the action plan, Deputy Minister, and I think the 'Nation of Sanctuary' is very welcome as a title, because I think it's indicative of the ambition of Welsh Government to drive progress in providing a welcome and the support and services that asylum seekers and refugees need.

Just to pick up on what you said earlier, I would ask that the sort of detail around monitoring and evaluation, indicators, time frames for delivery of actions, identified funding and lead responsibility is set out in as much detail as possible for all of the actions, because I think that's an essential discipline in ensuring delivery. I'd also like to know what sort of update you might be able to provide, Deputy Minister, in terms of the refresh of the community cohesion plan, the way that we can develop adequate relationships with the media to address those issues that have been identified, and whether the assessment of the impact of right-to-rent checks has been done. And finally, whether funding for the guardianship pilot will be available to all local authorities in Wales.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:44, 29 January 2019

I thank you very much for those questions, John Griffiths. It's thanks to you and your committee that we are here with a refreshed plan on sanctuary in Wales. I hope you will agree with the way we've laid out the plan—the actions and who is responsible, and that includes the divisions of the Welsh Government and other partners that are clearly laid out in the plan. I expect to be rigorously monitored on this plan, as will I expect the Welsh Refugee Coalition to monitor me on it, as well. But it is across the Government that delivery has to be made by, of course, Ministers, and it will be clearly monitored, I know, by your committee. You raise an issue about the community cohesion programme: we're working to a national community cohesion programme. It's already been developed, as I'm sure you're aware. We're putting it out for consultation for a refresh, and we've continued to fund our network of community cohesion co-ordinators across Wales. And, of course, that's crucial in terms of some of the issues that have been raised in the response to this statement today: the very real threat to people in terms of cohesion and also the key issues that have come out of this very challenging climate that we have for refugees and asylum seekers. We can't be complacent about the fact that although we may, in this Chamber, the majority of us, be espousing and supporting and driving actions, the challenge to this is real and deep, as we have already heard today.

I think the funding that's available for the guardianship scheme and unaccompanied asylum-seeker children scheme is going to be made available to all of the local authorities, but, obviously, we need their co-operation in terms of housing.

And your final point: we are particularly looking at what we can do within our powers in terms of housing, and looking at issues, particularly, for example, around the Rent Smart Wales code of practice. I mean, that's crucial in terms of how we can protect many asylum seekers and refugees and to make sure that where people are rehoused, they're with fit and proper people to be granted a licence. And that's particularly key in terms of exploitation, but we will continue to press with the UK Government in terms of better contracts and for them to accept our recommendations in terms of those contracts in terms of asylum accommodation.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:47, 29 January 2019

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister. The Adult Placement (Service Providers and Responsible Individuals) (Wales) Regulations 2019, the Regulated Advocacy Services (Service Providers and Responsible Individuals) (Wales) Regulations 2019, and the Regulated Fostering Services (Service Providers and Responsible Individuals) (Wales) Regulations 2019—in accordance with Standing Order 12.24, I propose that the following three motions under the items 6, 7 and 8 on our agenda are grouped for debate. Does any Member object? No.