5. Statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs: The Warm Homes Programme

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:51 pm on 19 February 2019.

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Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 4:51, 19 February 2019

Diolch, Llyr Huws Gruffydd for that series of questions. I cannot pretend that—. I wish I had far more money to put into all of our warm home schemes. You say that your manifesto was to put £3 billion in—in I think you said over three years—[Interruption.]—no, a longer period. I mean, you have to look at where that funding would come from. My budget isn't even £1 billion a year, and, obviously, that's right across the department. So, I absolutely accept and I wish that I could put more funding into the scheme so that we could retrofit far more houses.

On the decarbonisation part of it—and forget the Warm Homes side—I know that if we're going to meet our carbon emissions target, we need to be putting far more effort into our homes. But, again, you go back to aspiration, you have to be pragmatic, you have to be realistic. I want to be ambitious, I want to be aspirational, but, equally, we have to be realistic too. I've met with the providers of both Arbed and Nest on many occasions, not just since I've been in this portfolio, but as an Assembly Member in my own constituency, and there is only so much we can do with funding and with resources. But one death is too many deaths, and we certainly don't want to be having in Wales the numbers that you've just referred to.

I think it's really important that this strategy does have a target. You mentioned the 2018 target, and looking back, it certainly wasn't achievable, so I don't see the point in having targets, particularly when you're ministering and you think, 'Well, I'm not going to be there in 10 years' time', and you can promise anything. I'm not like that and I don't want to do that. But I do think, within the strategy, you need to set realistic targets that can be met.

You asked about Part L building regulations—that's now being taken forward by my colleague Julie James, and I will certainly ask her to keep you updated, and I'm sure she will keep Members updated in relation to, again, what targets come forward.

You mentioned about pre-payment meters. I think too many people pay too much for their home energy needs, simply because they're on a pre-payment meter. When I looked at the figures of people who are on these meters, it's about 5 per cent of owner-occupiers. In the private sector, the numbers increase to 23 per cent for electric pre-payment meters and 26 per cent for gas. When you look at social housing, they increase to 46 per cent for electricity and 44 per cent for gas. I know some people do prefer to use them, and that's absolutely fine, and I know that that's because they do have a fear of having unmanageable debt, but I think we've got to do far more to support people to access tariffs so that they are able to be on the best tariff possible to heat their homes at an affordable price. You'll be aware of the introduction of a cap on pre-payment meters, which was made following recommendations by the Competition and Markets Authority and I think that was very welcomed. However, I've had these discussions with energy companies—I think they need to do far more to offer pre-payment customers a much better deal, particularly vulnerable customers, to ensure that supplies are maintained during the winter months, because I know that there is self-disconnection, and I think the energy companies have a moral duty to do that.