2. What discussions has the First Minister had in order to improve hospital waiting times? OAQ53637

NHS performance, including hospital waiting times, forms part of my regular meetings with the Minister for Health and Social Services.  

I thank the First Minister for that reply. Is the First Minister aware that, in the period of July to December 2018, ambulances were waiting outside hospitals in Abergavenny and in Newport for over 5,000 hours and, therefore, they couldn't respond to emergencies. Given that the average ambulance crew is two on these occasions, that's 10,000 crew hours that have been lost. The handover time target in these cases is 15 minutes, but as regards the Royal Gwent Hospital, that target was only met for half the time.

Now, these figures were revealed in answer to a freedom of information request by a Mr Eddie Blanche, who said he had seen ambulances served by welfare vans outside the hospital to supply waiting crews with hot drinks and toilets because they were expected to wait there for such a long time. So, if it's bad enough they have to give them a bus to have their rest in whilst waiting to unload patients, then this is an issue that needs to be addressed now. He says, 'It's scary. I'm worried that people will start dying if the problem isn't fixed'. When does the First Minister think the problem will be fixed? 

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, the figures that the Member quotes are freely available; they don't need to be got through a freedom of information request, because we make that information available in the public domain all the time. Of course ambulance handover figures are a concern to us, because they reflect pressures in the system as a whole. Over this winter, we know that handover times have improved, rather than got more difficult. We know that, since we moved to a different way of measuring the success of the ambulance service, we have been able to demonstrate that those patients who need that service most urgently get it most quickly and effectively all across Wales, and strenuous efforts go on through the ambulance service, through emergency departments, through the people who work in that service, to go on improving what we are able to offer, and those efforts will continue into this year.

What discussions has the First Minister had in order to improve waiting times?

Well, those discussions go on with the Minister on every available occasion because there is a great deal to discuss and there is a great deal to be pleased about here in Wales. Thirty-six-week waits 41 per cent lower in December 2018 than the year previously; diagnostic waiting times 54 per cent lower than a year ago; nearly nine out of 10 patients in Wales wait less than 26 weeks from referral to treatment, and that number in Wales is rising not falling; our cancer waiting times are improving, whereas across our border they are at the worst they have been ever since those figures began to be recorded. And Dirprwy Lywydd, perhaps most remarkable of all, at the point where our health and social care services meet, our performance in relation to delayed transfers of care outstrips anything elsewhere. Delayed transfers of care figures fell again in December, despite winter pressures, and 2017 and 2018 are the two best years in terms of delayed transfers of care figures ever since those figures first began to be collected 13 years ago.

One of the reasons that those figures are better, though, is because we've simply got patients stacked up in corridors rather than actually in cubicles being seen by medical professionals, and you will know that one of the regions that has the worst emergency department performances is north Wales, where we have the Betsi Cadwaladr health board in special measures for all sorts of performance-related problems, with Wrexham Maelor posting the worst figures in the whole of the United Kingdom, not just in Wales, and with the second-worst performing hospital being Glan Clwyd Hospital in Bodelwyddan.

And it's not just unscheduled care; it's also the planned care and operations as well. If you look back to December 2012, 87 per cent of patients received their treatment within the 26-week target time for orthopaedic surgery versus less than 60 per cent in December 2018. So, you're suggesting that things are getting better. The figures speak for themselves in terms of them getting worse and worse. When are patients in north Wales—when are my constituents—going to see this situation turned around, and when are those hospitals going to hit the targets that your Government sets for them?

Well, Llywydd, the point the Member made at the beginning clearly cannot be true. Delayed transfers of care figures are not affected by the way in which people are received into our hospitals; they're all about the way in which people are discharged back into the community, and Betsi Cadwaladr university health board is part of the success of the Welsh NHS and our social care services in that regard. In fact, the greatest improvement of all in relation to delayed transfers of care figures is to be found in the north of Wales. Of course we are concerned, the Minister is concerned, at the difficulties that have been experienced at two hospitals in north Wales over this winter. Their performance distorts the performance of the whole of the NHS, where, elsewhere, improvements were to be found. We go on, we go on investing, investing in the physical layout of those hospitals, investing in the professional leadership of those departments and, together with the health board, we are confident that there are plans in place that will lead to further improvements in elective and in emergency care.