Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Economy and Transport – in the Senedd at 1:41 pm on 20 March 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:41, 20 March 2019

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Now, Trade and Investment Wales recently hailed the 30 per cent lower salary costs in Wales compared with other parts of the UK. Government has since taken down references to lower wages on social media, and so on, and I can fully understand why you'd want to distance yourself from your own mistake, but can I ask what is the mistake that was made here? Was it just that you said this? Because it does appear that at the heart of Government thinking still is a belief that offering low wages is a good thing. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:42, 20 March 2019

Absolutely not. If I could just remind the Member that I've not been responsible for Trade and Investment Wales since the reshuffle in December, but I can say to the Member that no Ministers approved that tweet. It was unacceptable. It does not represent Ministers' thinking. Indeed, the economic action plan has been designed to drive salary growth and the quality of jobs across Wales, and that's precisely what we're striving to do. 

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

Sadly, of course, the cat was let out of the bag and it was an insult to Welsh workers, of course, to suggest that low wages in Wales was something to be celebrated. The truth, of course, is that wages in Wales have been remaining at too low a level for far too long. I do not believe that reflects well on 20 years of Labour-led Governments. But one tool, certainly, for raising wages in Wales is the push for wider roll-out of the living wage. The public sector is engaging positively. I think councils, led by both my party and yours, have taken positive steps on the roll-out of the living wage, but a strong Welsh economy needs a strong private sector, and the private sector would benefit certainly from having more workers on the living wage. But isn't the truth of the matter that, in the private sector in Wales, we are lagging way behind other parts of the UK when it comes to the implementation of the living wage?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:43, 20 March 2019

And can I say that that's precisely why we introduced the economic contract as an integral part of the economic action plan, ensuring that fair work is a key consideration in any decision that's made as to whether a business should secure Welsh Government funding? Of the four criteria in that economic contract, fair work is a key component. The Fair Work Commission is concluding its work at the moment. We'll adopt the recommendations. I am in no doubt that the living wage will have been a key consideration in their work.

But let's just look at the facts concerning the economy since devolution. Let's take employment—it's at record levels. Let's take the employment rate—again, it's at record levels and it increased more quickly in Wales than in the UK over the course of devolution; it's up 9.7 per cent compared to 4.2 per cent. Inactivity in the economy is lower now in Wales than in the UK as a whole—that's a record and it's the first time it's happened. On businesses headquartered in Wales—because lots of people often say we don't have the headquarters—the fact is we've got a record number of businesses established here in Wales with their headquarters here, and, indeed, it's gone up by nearly 15,000 in the last six years alone. The business birth rate is higher in Wales than in the UK as a whole. On business enterprise research and development—because a lot of people often say we're not investing enough in that—actually, between 1995 and 2017, the annual average increase in Wales was 8 per cent, and that's double the average rate across the UK. Exports are up. Household wealth is up. The Welsh economy is undoubtedly up since devolution, and in particular in the last 10 years. That's something that I think Edwina Hart should take recognition for and praise for because she invested a huge amount of time and energy in making sure that we moved away from de-industrialisation by focusing on higher quality work that pays. The job is not over yet, and that's why the economic action plan is so vitally important.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:45, 20 March 2019

That was a very long list, and I'm not sure if you were trying to confirm what I was saying, but nowhere on that list was wage levels in Wales. Yes, of course it's welcome that unemployment is falling, but it doesn't show the whole picture. Falls in rates of economic inactivity are to be welcomed, but that doesn't show the whole picture. My questions today relate to wage levels in Wales, and we know that they've been too low for too long, and we have this seeming celebration of low wages in that tweet, which has now been deleted.

But returning to the living wage issue, these are the figures: in Scotland now, there are 3,000 employers who are registered as living wage employers. In England, that number is 4,000. In Wales, the difference, really, is quite stark: we have just 120 companies—the most recent figures that I have here—who are registered as living wage companies. Now, one difference, certainly, between the situation in Wales and Scotland and England is that they have organisations funded in Scotland and England that go out there persuading and encouraging private sector companies to roll out the living wage, and showing them that it would be good for their businesses if they were to become living wage employers.

Is it not time that Welsh Government really invested? And by the way, it is of course welcome that contracts you directly enter into, through procurement in Wales, companies are encouraged in that way, and instructed, in fact, to pay workers the living wage. But what about all the other companies that are not engaged in direct contracts with the Welsh Government? Isn't it time that you invested in organisations such as Citizens UK in England, Poverty Alliance in Scotland to make sure that the message goes out there to companies in Wales that it's good for them, as well as for Welsh workers, that more of them pay the living wage?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:47, 20 March 2019

I should say, I don't think the Member and I have a difference of view on wage rates: they need to improve, there is no doubt about that. The way that we're going to go about doing it is by rolling out more widely the economic contract as a principle and in practice as a means of driving up the quality of work and remuneration.

Now, the Member identified some vehicles elsewhere that drive the uptake of the living wage. Here in Wales, we've got Business Wales with more than 200,000 businesses within their reach—that's a service that I have personally utilised recently. I've written to all businesses on two occasions regarding Brexit, contacting 200,000, but Business Wales are now acting as the agency for Welsh Government to encourage as many in the private sector as possible to adopt the living wage.

But I do believe, rather than just encouragement, you have to offer something. You have to offer something, and that something is Government funding, and applying the principle of something for something is by far the most effective way of changing behaviours and improving wage rates. And that's what we're seeing in Wales, and that's why household income is up in Wales. But I would accept that more still needs to be done. We started from a terrible base back in the mid-to-late 1990s. We've made huge progress, but through the economic action plan and the economic contract, we will go further still.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:48, 20 March 2019

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Last month, Actica Consulting was commissioned jointly by the UK and the Welsh Governments to undertake a rapid independent-led review of arrangements for the delivery of the £1.3 billion Swansea bay city deal. I'm turning my head now to the Deputy Minister as I can see that's the way the discussion's going. The report made seven recommendations to improve the deliverability of the deal's outcomes, and I wonder, Deputy Minister, if you could provide a summary of your assessment of the report's findings and recommendations.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 1:49, 20 March 2019

Gosh, what an opportunity. There is further opportunity later with the urgent question on this very same subject to address those topics, so perhaps I'll give you a brief summary and we can explore it a little further.

This is a jointly commissioned report by the UK and the Welsh Government, and Alun Cairns and I see eye to eye on this matter, at least. There is criticism of all the actors in these two reports, and I think rather than dwelling on that, we need to reset and focus on where we take this from here. But there's a range of very helpful detailed recommendations for all sides about how we can recalibrate this relationship to deliver what we all want it to deliver.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 1:50, 20 March 2019

Thank you for your answer, Deputy Minister, and I don't disagree with anything you said. I do want to try and draw out what your initial assessments were of those recommendations and perhaps if you could address that. I did note from reading the report myself that the key recommendations outline the need for action over the next four months. Now, these actions are for the city deal to deliver, but I wonder how you and the Welsh Government are going to support the city deal in delivering on those recommendations.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour

Certainly, Alun Cairns and I have already met with the leaders of the local authorities on Friday. I had a further meeting on Monday with the Welsh MPs and a meeting this morning with Welsh Assembly Members to let them know what we intend to do next.

Our first priority is to get some momentum back into this project, so we're working closely with the city deal to try and get two of the projects over the line as soon as possible, namely the second phase of Yr Egin in Carmarthen and the waterfront digital district in Swansea. To do that, the onus lies primarily on the city region; they're the ones who have to develop the business case and get it approved by ourselves and by the UK Government. We are committed to working closely with them as partners, not simply as policemen, which is the way the deal has been set up, to try and collaborate and make sure that we get the assurance needed to release the funding for both these projects.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 1:51, 20 March 2019

Thank you, Deputy Minister. I am glad that you and Alun Cairns are working together on this, and I'm pleased that you're updating local Members on issues as well. But I would be grateful if you could also keep all Members updated, perhaps through statements, because we've all got an interest in this. I'm glad that the report does highlight the positive contribution that the deal can make in driving forward the economy of this part of Wales. I'm a believer in the city deal approach and I'm pleased that we're moving towards a position where every part of Wales will be in the footprint of a growth deal.

But, going forward, Minister—and this is perhaps why I asked for all Members to be updated in this regard—how are you going to ensure that the issues that were raised in this report are going to be dealt with with other growth deals as well? What I'm asking, Minister, is that there were issues and challenges outlined with regard to the Swansea bay city deal and I want to ensure that the Government is using its influence to ensure that these same mistakes don't happen in other growth deals. I'm particularly thinking about the mid Wales growth deal, which is emerging, of course.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 1:52, 20 March 2019

Well, a number of points there. We have briefed Members: we issued a very full written statement on Friday, we published both reports and, as I said, the briefing has been put in place and I'm answering questions this afternoon on it. If any Member would like further information, I am more than happy to meet with them to brief them on what we're doing. I think openness is really important on this, which is why we've published the full reports, even though they are critical of all sides.

In terms of the lessons learnt for other projects, this city deal was set up in a way that has not been identical to other city deals, and I think it's been one of the problems that the reports have identified: dealing with it on a project by project basis, rather than giving the city region the autonomy to take a portfolio management approach. And by insisting on the five-case Treasury model for all projects to pass through, they've set a bar that is far higher for local authorities to pass than in conventionally funded projects, either through their own revenue or through the Welsh Government. Some of the local authorities, and the region as a whole, have struggled to have the skills and capacity to be able to go through that rigorous business case model, and that's been one of the problems highlighted in the report. So, in a sense, it's been set up in a way that has made it cumbersome and difficult for them.

How we apply this to the other regions—. We're determined now that the responsibility for the city deals has moved from the Cabinet Office in that policeman role into our department we can take more of a partnership role. The Minister and I are both determined—and we've already met with the chairs of all the city deals to make this point—that we now, under the economic action plan, want to develop regional economic strategies. We want to do that in the spirit of partnership and co-production, and we should take the city deals as the starting point for how, together, we develop a grounded regional strategy for each part of Wales. In doing that, we'll be fully absorbing the lessons from both these reports and from other conversations.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:54, 20 March 2019

(Translated)

UKIP spokesperson, David Rowlands.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Diolch, Llywydd. Could the Cabinet Minister update us on the progress of the Blaenau Gwent advanced technology park?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Yes. In terms of the overall Tech Valleys initiative, the Deputy Minister and I are working very closely together to ensure that the national digital exploitation centre is developed as quickly as possible, that we attract more particularly automotive tech companies into the area, and that we utilise the £100 million that was allocated for the Tech Valleys initiative for the best interests of the area.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 1:55, 20 March 2019

I thank the Cabinet Minister for his answer. However, since the announcement with regard to the park and to the advanced automotive technology site, some 18 months ago, not a single industrial unit has been built. Will the Minister now give the people of Blaenau Gwent and Ebbw Vale a firm date for the commencement of work, and perhaps even an actual time frame for the creation of jobs at the site?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Well, we've already approved the Rhyd-y-Blew site development. We have approved additional business and light industrial units at The Works in Ebbw Vale. The Techboard refit will begin this year. And I'm pleased to be able to say today that we are ahead of the spending profile for the £100 million Tech Valleys initiative, largely because of the investment in the national digital exploitation centre, which could have gone anywhere in the world—to Singapore, to Germany—but instead, Thales chose Wales.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Again, I thank the Minister for—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

No, my fault—intervention not necessary.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

That's fine, Llywydd. Again, I thank the Minister for his answer, but following on from the cancellation of the Circuit of Wales, I'm noting that the Ebbw Vale enterprise zone was responsible for just 179 jobs during its seven years of existence. Surely, then, Cabinet Minister, it is time the Welsh Government put in place, as a matter of urgency, the infrastructure—both physical and spatial—to create long-term jobs and prospects in an area that is said to be one of the poorest in Wales and indeed the UK. Following on from this, Cabinet Minister, can you give us an update on car manufacturer, TVR, and its intended occupancy on the site?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:57, 20 March 2019

Yes. I'm pleased to say that TVR are making very great progress in terms of seeking capital support for their project. And in terms of physical infrastructure, the Member is absolutely right: JLL and many others have identified a very urgent need—not just within Ebbw Vale and Blaenau Gwent as a whole, but right across Wales—for industrial units, partly as a consequence of so many of the units that were developed and built in the 1980s reaching the end of their useful life. And so, that's why we're investing a huge proportion of the £100 million in industrial units that are appropriate for the sorts of businesses that want to locate in Tech Valleys. I should also say to the Member, with regard to the enterprise zone, that I'm pleased that we have now transitioned into a new governance structure—the Tech Valleys advisory board—which is looking specifically at the opportunities, not just within the automotive sector, but in the wider tech and digital environment, for jobs to be developed in Blaenau Gwent.