Item 6 on the agenda is a debate on a Member's legislative proposal on child victims of sexual abuse. I call on Bethan Sayed to move the motion. Bethan.

Motion NDM7021 Bethan Sayed

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes a proposal for a bill to reform and improve support for child victims of sexual abuse in Wales.

2. Notes that the purpose of this bill would be to:

a) introduce the Barnahus Model of therapeutic led support for victims;

b) work with police to use the Barnahus Model of investigation in all cases of child sexual abuse; and

c) introduce statutory changes to improve emergency and temporary accommodation for abused children who cannot return to their home or are homeless.

Motion moved.

I was keen to bring this debate today because I and others here have been intrigued and interested by this debate into the models of delivery of support services in this arena.

Members will be aware of the petition, which is still under consideration by the Petitions Committee, relating to the Barnahus model and to increasing provision of safety and support for child sex abuse victims. The petition was brought by one of my South Wales West constituents, Mayameen Meftahi, who has been a strong advocate for a reform in services available for child sex abuse victims. This shows the strength of the petitions system. I met her at the petition presentation and she did have a very strong effect on me when she told me her personal story of the harrowing experience that she'd gone through in her childhood. 

This is a really emotive issue and it's something that none of us here, I'm sure, will not be moved by, along with people across the country. The point of bringing this debate is my attempt to offer some of those ideas to the floor of the Senedd so we can see what consensus there is and to elaborate on the feasibility of these ideas. I'm sure that they will be given serious consideration by the Government.

I recognise that some of the ideas we'll discuss are relatively new concepts in the UK, but I believe that they form part of a crucial potential revolution in how we treat children and how we can support children, many of whom will be in a place of abject despair and trauma.

My motion focuses on three primary points: how we can work with police to produce better outcomes as part of the Barnahus model; how we can provide an increase in provision and ensure the multiple levels of support and assessment are in one place; and how we can offer a refuge for children in need. 

The Barnahus model was launched in Iceland in 1998 as a direct response to some of the same problems that we see in many other countries, including our own: conviction rates lower than they should be; children not feeling safe enough or not being supported enough to come forward; children worried about repercussions if they did come forward; children in a place of deep trauma, without the kind of necessary supportive environment absolutely essential to help someone vulnerable in a very dark place to open up. The Barnahus model, or 'child house', as it is translated directly, has been a success story. The services are therapeutic-led, with trained professionals leading a safe environment designed with children in mind. And the Barnahus acts as a one-place suite for services. These include the forensic interview, medical examination and child and family therapy. Witness testimony against an abuser can also be given without the need for a victim to give multiple testimonies in multiple settings.

Many victims of child sex abuse often do not have a particularly good view of statutory services and, in some cases, do not have the best direct experiences either. Many child sex abuse victims have not been a victim of just one kind of abuse. A lot of children will also have potentially fallen into difficulties with authorities for varied reasons, often related to the abuses they have suffered, and will not have confidence or ease in talking to police or authorities. 

When a victim does come forward, it's more common than not that, under the current system, prosecution will not be successful. There are regular instances of evidentiary requirements not being met, and often this is intertwined with children not meeting the common expectations for witnesses. Due to the stress and trauma of the settings in which a child victim is required to give evidence or dropping out of the process at some point after it's started, for myriad reasons, this is not surprising. 

The well-being of a child is also placed in jeopardy, as the re-traumatising effect of multiple interviews across different authorities is poor practice, yet it is an accepted practice. It's one reason why the time taken to bring a charge in CSA cases is significantly longer than for adults. A clinical psychologist-led interview process in one room, where courts can listen and ask questions live, is a better model, and it's supported by authorities across this country, which are encouraging this model to be tried, including the former Home Secretary, Amber Rudd. So, working with the police on this is essential, and this is within our competence. The Children's Commissioner for England, for example, has already teamed up, to trial the model, with some police services in England, and urged each police force area to establish the model by 2016. I think there's little reason why Wales shouldn't or couldn't do the very same. Of course this would require potential investment, and I'm not suggesting that the current model of sexual assault referral centres be scrapped completely in favour of something brand new. That's not what I'm saying here today. The current work of SARCs, in partnership with regional safeguarding boards, could be built upon where they currently work well, or the Barnahus could be established in some areas of the country where there is a significant lack of provision at the moment. And that's something that third sector bodies have raised with me as a result of this legislative proposal being chosen. 

We have to do better here in Wales. I appreciate that policing is not directly devolved, however this system of assessment, support and interviews all under one roof is already available in pilot centres in London, and police and crime commissioners can be worked with on this agenda. In fact, the PCC for north Wales has already expressed to me his willingness to support a similar model here in Wales. 

This is a model that has been successful. It's been applied across the Nordic countries, where substantial improvements have been witnessed. Conviction rates doubled in Iceland, and the time taken to complete assessments and investigations lowered dramatically. This model has been adopted in parts of the US and Canada as child advocacy centres from the 1980s, and there is a movement across Europe for this to be rolled out. So, I personally don't accept the view that this is an idea that would need a substantial level of work to investigate, or adaptations, in order to find a suitable model for Wales. Sometimes it's appropriate to follow international best practice and to do so immediately. Sorry to quote the commissioner for England again, but, I quote:

'Experiences in Sweden, Norway and Denmark demonstrate that the model can be adapted and implemented within the legal framework of another country, without compromising the core principles which deliver such impressive results.' 

So, we wouldn't need to compromise anything we are currently doing.

I was very keen when submitting this motion that it should include a discussion regarding safe houses and refuge accommodation. If a child turns up to a police station or makes an allegation to a teacher regarding a parent, guardian or family member sexually abusing them, then I believe it right that there is a safe space and accommodation available for that child to go to be supported whilst waiting for the statutory process to go into effect or to wait for the appropriate foster care options. At the moment, local authorities have the power to issue emergency care orders and for children to go into foster care, but I don't believe that this should be the only option.

Although there are excellent networks of foster carers across the country who do sterling work in this area, there is also a shortage of foster carers. In 2018 it was noted that Wales faced a shortfall of over 500; across the UK, it was estimated by the Fostering Network that 8,000 were needed to fill the gaps in provision.

When a child is placed in an emergency foster care situation, there is also no guarantee that the family will have specific experience of dealing with children with sexual abuse, although I appreciate that they would hope to be able to deal with that in the most appropriate way. That child would often be placed in a temporary situation, before moving on to a foster carer with, hopefully, more experience with that particular background in mind. But the specialist care and support would not necessarily be available immediately.

Women's Aid has supported the calls for safe houses for children because there is a postcode lottery for children in many cases, and because the specialist support and environment available to a woman who enters a women's refuge are incredibly important. That same supportive and specialist environment should be available to a vulnerable child, even if only as a short-term option.

As I said earlier, the petition calling for child houses in Wales was brought by a Swansea constituent of mine, Mayameen Meftahi, who herself suffered from abuse and ran away from home but was returned to an abusive household—that's something that she never wants to see happen to anybody else. She has called for child safe houses because the reality of the pressures of the trauma on the child facing up and coming forward with an experience as harrowing as this is absolutely enormous—we can't underestimate the experience that child will have to go through. Will they be believed? Will someone listen to them? Will they face the prospect of having to return home? Will someone in the family convince them to retract that particular allegation? We've seen it happen. We've seen it in the news—we've seen these stories and we don't want to see them again.

The option of a refuge setting, where a child can get support to deal with these issues and decisions, is an option worth investigating. Let's not forget that there are big decisions and a very big process forced onto the shoulders of a very vulnerable child. I'm prepared to listen to the Government and other Members on the practicalities of setting up options such as this, and to what extent joint working across statutory agencies and appropriate third sector partners could mean. I'm encouraged by the Welsh children's commissioner's words that she would welcome engagement on how best to approach the setting up of a safe space or refuge, and how that could work. I know that there is a piece of work under way at the moment into this particular model in London—it's called the Lighthouse project. But even though that review is underway, that doesn't stop us from adopting it here—it has been working successfully there so far.

Just to finish, I would genuinely encourage the Government to support this motion today as part of a wider suite of ways to reform the system for the better. We know that this is a very sensitive area, but we also know that those who have experienced abuse are sometimes best placed to tell us what needs to happen, and in this case I think that's right.

Thank you very much. Can I just gently remind Members that it's a 30-minute debate? It's going to be interesting to see how Bethan goes backwards now to reply to the debate, but I will be lenient. Can I just remind Members that it's three minutes, and the Minister has six minutes to speak? Let's see how we get on. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank the Member for bringing this motion to debate and reminding us all of the need to work towards the protection and safeguarding of our children and young people that are victims of the most horrific sexual abuse and exploitation. I am terribly concerned by the statistics on current sexual abuse, and the serious and often long-term psychological harm that this can have on victims. Approximately 54,000 sexual offences were committed against children under the age of 18 in the period between October 2015 and 2016. 

Sexual abuse can occur in multiple forms, from rape, sexual activity, sexual assault, trafficking, abuse of trust, voyeurism, and other non-consensual and manipulative abuse. Given the inevitable psychological distress, pain and suffering that accompanies sexual abuse, I agree that Wales—having read more into it—should also look to adopt the Barnahus Icelandic model.

As explained by the NHS England review of pathway following sexual assault for children and young people in 2005, the Barnahus model fully integrates the psychological care and treatment that these victims need early on in their recovery, and when they report the crime. Crucially, this model emphasises the inclusion of fully qualified and experienced mental health practitioners. There will be full integration of all bodies that would have close involvement with a child sexual abuse case.

Indeed, two of the biggest hurdles that need to be overcome in properly tackling sexual abuse are the building of trust and confidence in young people to come forward, and to reduce and mitigate the feelings of fear and self-blame that are often entrenched in sexual abuses cases. The key to the former, of course, involves the police and their relationship to communities and to the public. Perhaps this aspect of police work needs to be emphasised more, with better police training, and also looking at how they do interact when reports come in.

In summary, I wish to express my approval of this motion in order to protect some of our most vulnerable children. Comprehensive changes are needed, and this does include, I think, working towards the principle that Bethan Sayed AM has mentioned, the Barnahus model, as in Iceland, Norway, Greenland and Denmark. As well as preventing re-traumatisation and continuing to offer therapeutic intervention services, we should also strive to overcome the emotional factors that cause such poor prosecution rates. Thank you and well done, Bethan.   

Well done. Caroline Jones. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to thank Bethan for bringing forward this proposed legislation, and I want to say at the outset that I fully support her in this. Like Bethan, I met Mayameen when she came to the Senedd to present her petition, calling for the provision of child houses in Wales for victims of child sexual abuse. I spent time with Mayameen as she informed a couple of us of her harrowing tale of abuse by her father. Her bravery and strength of spirit shone through. I can safely say that she is one of the most inspirational persons I have ever had the pleasure to meet. 

Mayameen did not want other child victims to suffer from the same lack of basic support that she had suffered. And she said a child suffering any form of abuse should not be returned to that same environment once they have made that complaint and it has become known by certain services. 

By adopting the Barnahus model, it is not necessarily about the creation of multiple safe houses, but recognising that we are failing to provide any basic provision for child victims of sexual abuse. The model has been so successful around the world and in other parts of the UK that it has been widely adopted as the preferred model by experts in child protection. Wales needs to adopt this model to ensure that children who are suffering child abuse will have somewhere to escape. Without Barnahus, they will be returned back home, back into the arms of their abuser, just like we did to Mayameen.

Mayameen has spoken out so that others don't suffer like she did as a child. We owe it to her and countless other victims of child sexual abuse to listen. Communication and teamwork between agencies such as social services and police are of paramount importance in these cases. This proposal answers those calls and I urge Members to support it and to pass this legislation as soon as we can. Diolch yn fawr. 

Thank you. Can I now call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan? 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank Bethan Sayed for bringing this debate here today. I know we all agree that children who are sexually abused deserve the best possible, child-centred approach. Child sexual abuse has a significant detrimental impact on the well-being of children, as Members have said here today, and we know that this can often affect them throughout all their lives. Sometimes, they don't even reveal this abuse until much later in life because of the trauma it has caused. That's why services must operate in a way that supports children's emotional well-being and assists them to recover from the trauma of abuse. 

The Government will publish a national action plan on preventing and responding to child sexual abuse in the summer. The plan will set out clear actions for the Welsh Government and for safeguarding board partners. This will include cross-Government action to strengthen support to children who are sexually abused. We've already published the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence cross-Government delivery framework and together these policies set out our ambitions for strengthening support to children who are sexually abused and to adult survivors of sexual abuse. 

The NHS is currently leading work, in partnership with the police, safeguarding partners and the third sector all working together, to develop a sustainable model of sexual assault services for children and adults in Wales. We are aware that the implementation of the Barnahus model in Iceland has secured positive outcomes, both for child-centred practice and in terms of a rise in indictments and convictions. It has been successful in doing that. And we know about the child house pilot in London, where criminal justice processes and therapeutic support for children are brought together in one site. It will be important to better understand how the model will work in the context of the UK justice system, and we will consider the evaluation of this pilot once completed. In developing therapeutic support services for children who are sexually abused, we will also consider the evidence on the efficacy of other child-centred approaches.

We do not agree that legislation is required to secure these changes in this area of practice, and the Government will abstain on this motion. Children who are sexually abused will be subject to safeguarding proceedings. This will include a consideration by social services of where a child should live in order to keep them safe. The ministerial advisory group on improving outcomes for children has a programme of work that includes further strengthening our approach to appropriate and safe placements for children who become looked after. We would not want to promote any situation where abused children are expected to directly access any emergency accommodation and we would be concerned about the risk that perpetrators could identify the location of such accommodation and could target children for abuse. We also provide funding to Childline, which offers a safe way for children who are being abused to make contact with a counsellor who can report the abuse to social services.

Our policy development and practice advice in this area is directly informed by evidence from children and adult survivors, who we consider to be experts in their own experiences. Welsh Ministers are committed to promoting the right to be safe for children in Wales, and feel that many of the points made in this debate today are vitally important. 

Thank you very much. I will allow Bethan to respond to the debate. 

Sorry, I didn't realise the time had gone.

No, I thought you didn't. I thought you didn't.

I won't be very long. I just wanted to thank Janet Finch-Saunders, as ever, for her support of this idea and others that I've put forward in the past, and to Caroline Jones as well—you were with me when I met with our constituent and I know that it had an impact on us and it will form a basis of future work, I'm sure. In relation to the response from the Government—obviously disappointed that you've decided not to support it today, although the abstention is something I'll take. You know, small wins. 

Just to emphasise the fact that, for adults, for women, refuges do exist, and they are kept a secret from people. I visited them on a very confidential basis, and, yes, there may be instances where the abusers can find out the address, but I would like to think that, if we did set up this type of facility in Wales—we've seen from international examples that they are safe, that they are there for the child in every way, sense and form, and we could do it in a safe and supportive way here in Wales.

You say that you're waiting for the evaluation of the Lighthouse project in London, so I'm going to appeal to you that, if the evaluation comes out positively from the Lighthouse project in London, you will reconsider your abstention and that, as part of the action plan, you will be open-minded to considering this as a suite of ideas for that action plan, because I genuinely believe that this is one additional element to supporting children that could be there as an option, as opposed to trying to undermine everything else that's there—that's not what I'm saying. So, please keep an open mind, please look at the evaluation and include Assembly Members in the formulation of that action plan. That's something that we'd all like to work with you on. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the proposal. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. Therefore, we vote on this item at voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.