2. Will the First Minister set out how the Welsh Government supports local authorities to provide leisure services? OAQ53769

I thank the Member for that question, Llywydd. Even after a decade of austerity, the Welsh Government supports local authorities through revenue and capital funding for leisure purposes. Earlier this year we announced an additional £5 million worth of capital, through Sport Wales, to support the development of leisure facilities across our country.  

Thank you, First Minister. I'm sure you'll be aware that leisure services or leisure centres that have been transferred to independent, charitable trusts are applicable for non-domestic rate relief, while those that are retained by councils aren't. This means that, across Wales, leisure trusts receive rate relief of approximately £5.4 million, whilst local authorities are paying around £3.1 million. This is obviously unfair, and I know that the finance Minister has already agreed to meet with representatives from my local authority, Rhondda Cynon Taf, to further discuss this discrepancy. However, when these centres and services are so important in improving health and well-being, can the Welsh Government commit to doing all that is in its power to level this particular playing field?

Well, Llywydd, can I begin by agreeing with what Vikki Howells has said about the importance of sport and leisure to improving health and well-being? It was a particular pleasure to be with her in March at the opening of Cwmaman Primary School, and one of the really striking things that we saw that day was the multi-use games area available to the school during school hours but open for wider community use during the evening. And, indeed, I want to commend RCT as a local authority for the actions that it is taking to make use of the £15 million that the Welsh Government has set aside to support community-focused schools in Valley areas. 

As for the specific supplementary question on non-domestic rate relief, I think it's fair for me to say, Llywydd, that while local authorities pay in money to the non-domestic rate relief pool, they get every single penny of that back. So, they are paying money in, but every penny that they pay is redistributed through the pool, and redistributed on the basis of need. Nonetheless, the Member has identified an important issue. I'm glad that Rebecca Evans will be meeting with the local authority and others on 15 May, I believe, so that we can explore in more detail with local authorities whether there is a discrepancy here and whether there is action that could be taken to address it. 

First Minister, I'm sure you're aware of the situation at the city of Cardiff swimming club where, earlier this year, following the transfer of the Cardiff international swimming pool to Legacy Leisure, and a subsequent reduction in the council subsidy of £100,000, the club found themselves having to find £53,000 a year and a loss of pool time. This club has run for over 40 years, has seen dozens of its swimmers go on to represent Wales and the UK at Olympic Games and the Commonwealth Games, including Mark Foster, David Davies and Ieuan Lloyd. I think it's very important that when we see a change in these arrangements, we remember the need to involve all our clubs and organisations using these facilities, including the elite ones that bring such honour to our nation and are really important right down the sporting pyramid, because what we see achieved at the highest level has a big impact on our ability to take up sport in general. 

I thank David Melding for that. I am indeed aware of the issue and of the history of the club, both in terms of the role models that it has supplied and the work that it does in grass-roots swimming as well. I believe that the local authority remains in discussions with the club, looking for a way to resolve some of the issues that the club has identified. 

First Minister, leisure services across Wales have taken a hammering over recent years and, obviously, as you've said, while Tory UK Government austerity has driven much of this, over recent years a lack of Welsh Government funding to local government has compounded the issue. Now, these concerns over funding have been well made by council leaders of all political persuasions by the Welsh Local Government Association. Local leisure services clearly play a vital societal role in terms of tackling loneliness and isolation, physical fitness and social cohesion. Do you now recognise that your Government will need to commit to providing more money to local government in future years so that these vital services can be protected? 

Well, Llywydd, the Welsh Government's record of supporting local government in Wales bears any examination in comparison with what has happened in other parts of the country. That is why local authorities in Wales in this financial year have a very modest uplift in the investment that we are able to provide them, whereas further cuts are happening across our border. That does not mean for a minute that, nearly a decade into austerity, there aren't real pinch points and pressures that our local authority colleagues feel, and we discussed those with them absolutely regularly, and, as a Cabinet, we worked right through last summer to find money from every place we were able to go to in the Welsh Government to provide more funding for local authorities in the current financial year

Now, for next year, we have no budget at all. There is no comprehensive spending review that has been completed and we have no knowledge of what the revenue for Welsh public services will be from 1 April next year onwards. Those are tremendously difficult circumstances for local authorities, but also for every other public service that this National Assembly supports across Wales. We will do everything we can, working with local authorities and others, to protect those vital services, but the impact of austerity on the one hand and the absolute absence of a budget within which to plan for next year make that inevitably hugely difficult for us and for all of those services that depend upon the decisions that are made here in this Chamber.