1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:44 pm on 30 April 2019.
Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.
Diolch, Llywydd. Someone must take responsibility for Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board slipping into special measures, First Minister. Who is to blame?
Well, the report that has been published today, Llywydd, is a very difficult read, and something went seriously wrong in Cwm Taf maternity services. What I think the report demonstrates is that failures happened at many levels. They were professional failures. The report undoubtedly demonstrates that there were behaviours by doctors and other clinical staff, sometimes, but not always, because of the pressures that they were working under, that do not stand up to the test of professional conduct, that there was a failure of leadership and that that created a blame culture inside that service that meant that when people felt they had something to say, they were reluctant to say it. It demonstrates that there was a systems failure, so it's not just about individuals—it is about the way the system itself responded to those concerns. And then there was a failure of the organisation itself to see what was going on and then to respond to it properly. So, I don't think it is as simple as being able to point the finger at particular individuals, because the report demonstrates that those failures took place at many levels, and putting those things right will require action right across the board and amongst those people who work for it.
Well, you're right, First Minister, to question leadership on this matter, and people are questioning the leadership of your Government under these circumstances. And let me remind you, First Minister, this isn't the first time we've raised this terrible situation in this Chamber. And the last time I questioned you in March, you told me that mothers and babies are no longer at risk under Cwm Taf. If that was the case, I for one have been left wondering why the health Minister today has actually ordered maternity services at the Royal Glamorgan and Prince Charles hospitals to be put into special measures.
It's quite clear that you as a Government didn't have a grip on our health service, because your Minister has admitted today in his statement that he was unaware of an internal investigation from September last year. Surely your Government should have known what state of crisis these services were in, and why has it taken you so long to publish today's report, given that the first formal concerns at Cwm Taf were reported nearly seven years ago? And now, a review of 43 pregnancies will have to be carried out. Isn't it true that the health Minister and your Government have failed for far too long? You must be more transparent, First Minister, with the people of Wales. Instead of rearranging the seating plan around the board table, who will now actually take responsibility for this?
Well, Llywydd, the reason that we are having this very difficult conversation today is because the Minister commissioned an independent inquiry into what went on in Cwm Taf in October of last year. And I don't think there's any lack of transparency on behalf of the Government in having commissioned that report and having published it for the National Assembly to be able to debate it in the first week that we are back after Easter. And the reason that the Minister commissioned that report is in recognition of the bravery of those women and families in Cwm Taf who insisted on having the things that they could see brought to public attention. And those of us who've had an opportunity to read it will know just how powerful and how distressing it is to read the words of those women reported to us when they reflect on the experiences that they have had. And the actions of this Government are designed to make sure that the recommendations of that report are implemented, that they are implemented urgently and in full, that the failings that have taken place are corrected, and that we rebuild the confidence of patients and of staff who rely on that service every single day. There will be people using that service today, there will be people booked in to use that service over the coming weeks, and the actions that the Minister has taken are designed to ensure that those people, sometimes from some of the most health compromised parts of the whole of Wales, whose needs are greatest—that those people can be confident that the service that they receive is one that matches those needs.
But, First Minister, this latest development does call into question your leadership and the leadership of this Government to run our NHS. It's a sad fact, isn't it, that with five out of seven health boards across the country under special measures or targeted interventions, there is barely anything special or unusual about it anymore? This seems the new norm and the sad reality for the people of Wales under your Government. It takes an enormous amount of resources to heavily monitor so many services. Most notably, we are now approaching the four-year mark of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board being placed into special measures, making it the longest running special measurers health board in Britain. So, how is your Government keeping up with these extra demands? With such a dangerous record of established and proven healthcare failings under successive Labour and Labour-led Governments, can you today reassure the people of Wales how you intend to turn around the fortunes of our Welsh health service?
Llywydd, I don't believe that what we have read in this report is emblematic of maternity services across Wales. I have met midwives in every single part of Wales. They are amongst some of the most impressive health professionals I have ever met and they provide and absolutely dedicated and determined service for people. I was asked by the leader of the opposition whether this was emblematic of the service that is provided by staff of the NHS across Wales and I'm simply saying to him that, in my view, it is not and it does not reflect my experience of meeting front-line staff in every part of Wales.
Nevertheless, we recognise that people across Wales need an assurance that what has been discovered at Cwm Taf is not characteristic of the service that they provide. That is why, in addition to the independent maternity oversight panel that the Minister has established, and in addition to the actions that are being taken to improve the effectiveness of board leadership and governance in that local health board, the Minister has also announced today in his statement that across the NHS in Wales, we will carry out an assurance exercise, led by the chief nursing officer and the chief medical officer, and there will be a review later this year by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales of maternity services across Wales. Because while I don't think that this is emblematic of maternity services across Wales, patients across Wales deserve to have that independent assurance that the service they are providing is one that we in this Chamber would be proud to receive ourselves.
Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.
In going through the various levels of responsibility in this case a moment ago, there was one level that you failed to mention, namely the ministerial level, the governmental level—the level that you're responsible for. Nobody has resigned as a result of these damning failings in maternity services in Cwm Taf, and yet, surely somebody has to take responsibility, and it's Ministers who do have to carry the can, ultimately. And that includes you, First Minister, because one of the reports highlights concerns dating back to 2015, and your tenure as health Minister.
An internal report from a senior midwife has raised the curtain on further cases of stillbirth going back eight years that the health board didn't report on, and the authors of the report, it's important to note, have recommended that those cases should be subject to inquiry too. Now, this morning, in an interview on the BBC, a mother who gave birth to her daughter at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital last year, who subsequently passed away, said that the resignation of the health Minister would give her and those in the same position as her some assurance that others in future wouldn't face the same suffering, although it wouldn't, of course, bring her daughter back. Given the responsibility that you and your health Minister share for the systemic failures in Cwm Taf, wouldn't it be the right thing for you as First Minister to not only ask your health Minister to apologise to these families, but also to ask him to do the honourable thing and resign?
Well, I do not agree with what the Member has said. As I explained in my reply to Paul Davies, we're in the situation that we are in today, where we're able to discuss what's happened in Cwm Taf, because the Minister took the action that he did.
And I don't believe, myself, Llywydd, that the terribly difficult days that those families have gone through and the very difficult day that they will go through today—that they look to a single individual as the way of resolving those difficulties. It is because of the actions that the Minister has taken that these matters have come to light. It is because of the actions that the Minister has taken that we have an independent report, and it is because of the actions that the Minister has taken that we now have a set of measures in place to give those families assurance about what has happened in the past and, to those families who still need to use that service, an assurance of the standard of care that they will receive. I commend the Minister for the fact that he is meeting those families directly, that he will speak to them, that he will hear from them of their experiences, and that he will be responsible for the actions that this Government has taken. I think that is a far better way to respond seriously, as we ought to, to the history of what has happened and to the individual experiences that lie behind the report we are discussing this afternoon.
First Minister, yesterday, your Government declared a climate emergency, which we on this side obviously welcome and which we hope the Senedd will endorse through our motion tomorrow. Most people will be reasonably of the view that yesterday's announcement will be incompatible with any subsequent decision to plough ahead with the environmentally destructive M4 black route. Can you confirm that the declaration of a climate emergency, presuming it has substance and isn't merely declaratory, is a change in policy that will be a new and materially relevant factor in your decision making on the M4, and have you asked officials for additional advice on that basis?
You have today also confirmed that you will not be making an announcement on the M4 until the first week of June. Given your party is deeply divided on this issue, isn't it just a little bit convenient, First Minister, to kick this down the road, all £2 billion-worth of it, until after the European elections? You said on Sunday you were seeking advice on whether this decision would be caught by the rules on pre-election announcements. Have you received that advice? Is that the justification for this further delay? And did the advice from officials remind you of the general principles set out in guidance that, although in some cases it may be better to defer an announcement, that needs to be balanced carefully against any implication that deferral could itself influence the political outcome?
Llywydd, I don't believe that the declaration of climate emergency is a new policy for this Government or, indeed, for this National Assembly, because I think that the environmental principles that have been important across this Chamber and across the period of devolution are summed up in that decision. Of course the decision to declare an emergency is meant to galvanise action; of course it is meant to draw attention to the emergency; of course it is meant to make sure that Wales is positioned where we would wish to see Wales positioned, which is at the leading edge of the social movement that is developing around the world on this matter, but I don't believe that it represents a sharp difference in policy. It sums up the significance and the importance that we have attached to the environment, ever since the sustainable development principle was introduced into the founding legislation of this National Assembly. And that's why we decided to do it yesterday: because we wanted to make sure that we remained consistent with and true to the history that we have developed in this institution and then to use that to go further still.
So, my colleague Lesley Griffiths has been seeking further advice on the targets that we have announced so far to see whether there is more that we could still do. I know that that advice is expected to be received on Thursday of this week and that the Minister will be meeting directly with those who have provided that advice, and we will then see whether there is even more that we can do, building on the 100 actions in the low-carbon plan that we published in March, to do even more to play our part in dealing with, as I said in my answer to Leanne Wood earlier, what may be the single greatest threat to human beings that we have ever faced.
I hope—and I'll say it again: I hope that, if we are to make the impact that we want to make, then where we share a sense of the urgency and where we share a sense of the necessity to galvanise action within Government and beyond that we will work together across the Chamber to create that new sense of urgency that is needed in our society. If we do it that way, then we will have a better chance of being able to address the problem than if we treat it as some sort of party political matter.
As far as the M4 relief road is concerned, then Adam Price is right that I've said today—I've set out, as I promised I would, the decision-making timetable for the M4. In the end, the purdah issue became irrelevant. I received further advice yesterday, which will lead to questions that I will need to explore with officials. So, there is further advice and further meetings that will need to happen over the next few weeks. Then there will need to be the legal documentation drawn up to support whatever decision I come to. Members here will know, as Adam Price said, that the M4 relief road is an inherently controversial topic, and whatever decision is made is vulnerable to potential legal challenge, so the legal documentation to support that decision has to be in the best possible order. All of that will take another small number of weeks, but I'm now confident that I will be in a position to make that decision in the first week after the Whitsun break and that it will be announced here, on the floor of the National Assembly.
Now, as we know, the British Labour Party national executive committee is meeting now to decide their policy on a second referendum. Now, I know you either don't know or won't say how your nominee on the executive is going to vote, and I must admit, having just watched Mick Antoniw interviewed by the BBC, I'm none the wiser either. My question is simply this: what is the current policy of the Welsh Labour Government, because there does seem to be some degree of confusion? You said over the weekend that a confirmatory referendum should be 'in the mix', which prompted Alun Davies AM to say, referring to you:
'Well that wasn’t the policy that he asked me to vote for. We agreed as a Labour Group that we would vote for a policy which included a firm commitment to a referendum and @fmwales needs to be delivering on that policy.'
Given this disagreement in your own ranks, and even in your own Cabinet, can you set the record straight? Is it your Government's current policy to advocate a confirmatory referendum on any Brexit deal? If a different line emerges from the NEC in London this afternoon, does that then automatically become your Government's new policy?
Llywydd, here is the policy: if the UK Parliament cannot unite around an alternative proposition that includes participation in the single market and a customs union, then the only option that remains is to give the decision back to the people. That is the policy—that is the policy as set out in a motion sponsored jointly by his party and mine in front of this National Assembly earlier this year. That is the policy that I voted for—that is the policy that he voted for—and I'm very happy to be able to confirm that it remains the policy of the Government this afternoon.