Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:03 pm on 11 June 2019.
Thank you for the statement. There is no doubt that reducing teachers’ workload and reducing bureaucracy is an important part of the improvements that need to be made in order to improve standards in Wales. The relationship between a teacher and a pupil is crucial to the success of teaching in the classroom, and anything that has an impact on that relationship needs to be questioned and scrutinised regularly. I'm sure you would agree that we do need to create a profession that is more attractive to young people, and reducing workload and bureaucracy is all part of that circle of making the profession more attractive, I believe.
Can I ask first of all about the data audit that you mention in the fourth point that you make here? What will be the scope of this exercise? Are you looking at it from the point of view of reducing the amount of data that teachers are expected to record? I'm sure that would be welcomed. All this data collection must be a burden that could be reduced substantially. So, I do welcome this audit as a starting point for that.
In the longer term, do you believe that we need a more comprehensive review for the future, looking not only at the data that needs to be recorded and collected but also the fact that all these different bodies and organisations need responses, very often? So, a teacher has to be responsive to various layers and various people involved within the school, and I sometimes wonder whether there is too much of that happening and if there's duplication of what is monitored and what teachers have to respond to. That duplication is often unnecessary and we need to look at streamlining that whole aspect of teachers' work, which is, again, an intervention that can have an impact on that relationship I mentioned earlier. Elements of it, of course, are things that have to happen. But I'm just wondering if there is too much of the same happening. That's my question there. In the longer term, perhaps we may need to look at that in greater detail.
Suzy Davies mentioned the business managers in schools, and I listened to you talking about the pilot where 100 schools have been participating for two years. It's also my understanding that the business manager role works well, and you outlined some of the benefits in your statement. But because of all of the other demands on school funding, I wonder whether this function is sustainable in a climate of cuts. And anecdotally, at least, I hear that fewer and fewer schools are investing in that role or that the business manager role is perhaps the first to disappear in periods of financial cuts, despite the clear benefits. And, of course, having a business manager isn't a realistic option for some of our smaller schools. I just wonder whether we need to work there on some sort of business manager working across a number of schools. And I do know that that happens in some areas, and that is perhaps good practice that could be rolled out.
Finally, may I ask you about the review carried out by Mick Waters and Melanie Jones on the devolution of pay and conditions to Wales? I assume that part of this statement is a response to some of their comments. But there were 37 recommendations in that report, and I know that you responded to some of them, and some still stand. It would be good to have a further statement on some of those remaining issues. For example—this is worthy of consideration, I think—they suggested a system of career management and support for teachers and suggested a new employment model for school heads where leaders work on a regional level rather than being linked to individual schools. Now, it would be interesting to have your response to that. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree the with it, but it would be interesting to see how that debate would develop. There could be benefits if one needed leadership at a higher level than the level of the individual school, and the skills of heads could perhaps be shared across a number of schools or on a regional basis. So, when do you intend to respond to all of those recommendations made in the report by Waters and Jones?
And finally, how much scope do you see in the longer term to improve the conditions, including workload and bureaucracy, by means of the new devolved powers on teachers’ pay and conditions? Perhaps you can explain how you see the remit of the independent body developing as we see these new powers taking root and as we get a better understanding of what the possibilities are in using these new powers in moving forward.