The next item, therefore, is a statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs on delivering a low-carbon Wales. I call on the Minister to make the statement. Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. Last year, we received the stark warning from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, showing that the warming of our climate is beyond doubt and the evidence for human impact is even more certain. In Wales, we have a strong commitment to act on climate change, through the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the Environment (Wales) Act 2016. In December 2018, we set our first legislative interim targets and first two carbon budgets, providing clarity and direction.

Following the setting of our first carbon budget in March this year, the Welsh Government published 'Prosperity for All: A Low Carbon Wales', which contains detailed sector-by-sector emissions profiles, and 100 policies and proposals to achieve our first carbon budget and a low-carbon Wales. The plan is broken down by portfolio, which demonstrates the collective Cabinet commitment to change. It pulls together 76 pieces of policy from across the Welsh Government, UK Government and the European Union, and 24 proposals for future action. Implementing the policies in the plan is crucial to meet our first interim target and carbon budget, and the proposals create the foundation for greater decarbonisation. 

Latest data shows we are making progress, with carbon emissions 25 per cent lower in 2017 compared to 1990. However, we must not underestimate the challenges we face in Wales. Nearly 60 per cent of our emissions are from power and industrial installations. In the power sector, emissions grew by 44 per cent between 1990 and 2016, whilst over the same period, overall UK emissions from the sector reduced by 60 per cent. This reflects historical UK Government decisions to site fossil fuel power generation in Wales. Wales is, as a result, an exporter of electricity to the UK power system.

We need to be a part of a new energy system where we can control the outcomes we want for Wales—outcomes that are good in terms of our economy, the natural resources we all rely on, and our communities. This is why, in the plan, we have a proposal not only to develop our policy on the combustion of fuels, but have also focused on greater local ownership of renewable energy generation. Wales already generates electricity from renewable sources equivalent to 48 per cent of our total consumption. 

The plan contains actions to reduce emissions from industry, which must focus on collaboration, research and development. We will establish a dedicated industry-led group to consider the particular opportunities and challenges of decarbonising industrial sectors and business in Wales. Doing so must ensure a sustainable and competitive business environment, whilst also maximising the innovation opportunities from decarbonising industry.

We will decarbonise our transport system through focusing on encouraging modal shift towards more sustainable travel, and support the uptake of low-emission vehicles. We will decarbonise our buildings through expanded retrofit programmes, which not only help to reduce emissions but also tackle fuel poverty and build local skills. Next month, we will receive recommendations on how this could be achieved from our external advisory group. 

We will also increase our carbon stores through increasing tree cover and woodland creation activities. This is one of the reasons for a new national forest for Wales, and I will also be launching a consultation on the next stage of our land management policy next month, ahead of the Royal Welsh Show.

We must ensure our transition is grounded on fairness and equity, leaving no-one behind, and I am pleased to see this was also highlighted in the UK Committee on Climate Change's recent advice, whose 95 per cent target was predicated upon retaining the industrial base we have and decarbonising it, rather than offshoring our emissions. This is not only important in protecting our local jobs but also ensuring we are being globally responsible. We will also establish a climate just advisory group to advise Government on the transition away from a fossil fuel-based economy, with equity at the heart of our action.

I have always been clear, Government action alone will not be sufficient. We cannot do this without everyone playing their part. Working differently to develop skills, innovation, behaviour change and collaboration will be crucial if we are going to meet our ambition. Therefore, our next plan will need to be a whole-Wales plan, reflecting the need to recognise the contributions of all to meet the challenge of climate change and to secure maximum benefits for the well-being of Wales through the transition to a low-carbon economy.

Shortly after the plan was published, the Welsh Government declared a climate emergency to galvanise action. This was followed by the National Assembly becoming the first Parliament in the world to vote in support of such a declaration. Earlier this month, and in light of our declaration, I confirmed acceptance of the Committee on Climate Change's advice for a 95 per cent emission reduction by 2050, and committed us to going even further and achieving net zero emissions no later than 2050. This is Wales's fair contribution to the UK's commitments under the Paris agreement.

As a result of this, next year we will bring forward legislation to adopt a 95 per cent carbon reduction target, representing a huge increase in ambition from our current 80 per cent target; and before the end of 2021, we will set out our next plan to meet the 2021 to 2025 budget period. All Ministers are being asked to review their actions in the plan to identify where we can go further and faster to meet the increased ambition we have set ourselves.

However, we must remain focused on the first step. 'A Low Carbon Wales' describes how we will meet our first carbon budget and also provides a vital foundation for the greater efforts to come, not only from Government, but from all of Wales. If we do not tackle the areas outlined in the plan, we will not ultimately meet our first carbon budget or the fundamental challenge of tackling climate change.

Reaching our targets will mean people working together across Government, the private, public and voluntary sectors, and the involvement of society as a whole, and I am pleased to see others have already followed in declaring a climate emergency. This is a tremendous challenge, but one I am confident Wales can rise to.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. It seems as if the environment spokespeople and the Minister occupy a permanent slot on Tuesdays these days with the various statements—important statements, I might add, and very appropriate to be taken.

If I could first of all begin by asking—and I did ask in business statement to the finance Minister—about the economics of all this. I sign up entirely to the goal and the objectives of what you're talking about, but I do detect a sense that the economics of all this and how it will be delivered aren't understood in Government. If they are understood, then can we have that information made available? I do make reference to the Treasury analysis of what some of these initiatives will end up costing the economy and also generating for the economy as well, both in terms of jobs and in terms of money that Government will need to find. The Future Generations Commissioner for Wales has highlighted that, at the moment, only 1 per cent of the Welsh Government's budget is spent on decarbonisation. Can you at the very least this afternoon give us an indication of where you think that figure might be in five years' time, as a percentage? Surely these sorts of numbers have been worked and crunched within Government. Otherwise, unless the finances follow the policy, the policy just will not be able to be delivered. I hope you would accept that logic.

Also, on the energy element of the statement that you've highlighted this afternoon, Minister, you've highlighted previous decisions to locate certain power plants in Wales—Aberthaw is one that springs to mind, which is in my own electoral region. And we know, by 2025, that power station will come to the end of its life, given, obviously, that it's a coal-fired station. But you have previously said that, actually, as an energy model, we should be looking more at just generating enough energy for our own consumption, and not being an exporter of any surplus energy. Can you highlight to the Chamber today how you think that might be achieved, or indeed, is it active Government policy to only provide the energy capacity within Wales that will meet the demand of Wales, and not look to export generation outside our borders?

And do you see any role for fossil fuels in the energy mix here in Wales? Because in the decarbonisation strategy, obviously, we do have the gas-fired power station, for example, in Pembrokeshire. I'm led to believe it's one of the most modern, if not the most modern gas-fired power station in Europe. And, so, from the balancing point of view, as we understand with renewables, there's only a certain amount you can get to, because renewables, at certain times of peak demand and certain times of the night, in particular, don't generate. And battery technology at the moment—. Say, in south Wales, for example, if you want to put battery technology on the grid, it's impossible to put it on the grid because there's a moratorium from Western Power. So, can I understand what your energy policy is, and how that's going to be unfolded in the next 10 years, and in particular whether there is any space within the energy mix that the Government is envisaging for Wales for gas-powered stations such as Pembrokeshire?

I think it's really, really important the point that you make offshoring. It's one thing having a clear conscience in Wales, but there's no point in us having that clear conscience if all we've done is ship the businesses abroad. I think, if you look at the Ford decision, for example, I don't think that Mexico's declared a climate change emergency, and I'm pretty sure some of the environmental conditions—and I'd be happily corrected on this—are not as robust as maybe some of the European conditions are, and I'm sure that that might well have played out. And we're talking about the combustion engine here. So, again, I really would like to understand how your new working group that you're going to set up will be advising Government on how we can keep the competitive edge for Welsh business and industry, because without those Welsh businesses and industry creating the jobs and wealth that we need for our overall economy, the public will soon move away from this particular policy agenda because, ultimately, they will say they're losing their jobs because of it.

The forestry sector, as the climate change committee has highlighted, the Government’s own target of planting 100,000 hectares by 2030 has slipped considerably. I think, most probably, that’s a generous term I could use, because obviously that goal still sits there, but the planting targets have been missed successively over recent years. Again, it would be worth while trying to explore with the Minister how you're getting that back on track. And in particular, the future generations commissioner has highlighted a budget line of some £16 million required to reactivate this particular initiative. Has the Minister considered such financials within her settlement? And if she has, will she be committing to those lines that the future generations commissioner’s highlighted?

And I'd also like to draw house building into the equation, because if we are on about carbon reduction, house building, in particular, offers huge potential for us to achieve gains in this—whether that be retrofitting or indeed new building standards. And from the Conservatives' own housing position that my colleague David Melding brought forward last year, it is Conservative policy to have zero-carbon housing by 2026. Does the Government subscribe to such standards and such a goal, because, obviously, you are in the chair to make this decision at the moment? I do think it’s slightly regrettable that there is that disconnect in the department, now that housing and planning sit in another portfolio, whereas historically they did used to sit with your good self. Linking the environment and the environmental objectives with building regs and the planning system, obviously, does require very collaborative working with other departments, but there has, from previous examples, been shown to be a lack of joined-up thinking sometimes in some of this policy development.

And my final point, if I may, on this, is you've announced today that you've set up two new groups to advise you on it. I can remember when the economy Minister came into office and he highlighted how his department on its own had in excess of 40 different groups advising him on economic policy. Could you—and I appreciate you might not have this figure today—highlight exactly how many groups are working within the department, because there’s not many statements we get where there isn't a new group or task and finish operation set up to advise? And I think it would be good to understand exactly how all these groups, whilst doing no doubt very good work, are actually informing the debate and, importantly, crafting the policy to be delivered to meet the ambitious goals. And credit to the Government, they have ambitious goals, but they won't be goals that will be achieved unless you actually get this all working in harmony.

Thank you for that contribution. I think Andrew R.T. Davies spoke longer than I did with the initial statement—[Laughter.]—but I will try to answer all his questions. 

I think it's really important that when we consider the potential cost of any transition, we don't lose sight of the economic opportunities that can be realised. I think we focus perhaps too often on the loss of jobs. I think we can learn lessons. If you look at coal mining back in the 1980s, and the transition from that, I think there are lots of lessons to learn from that, and lots of things that we should avoid. But I think we have to have the courage to lead the way on this.

You ask about the financial cost, and there is something that we are looking at; I think the Trefnydd answered in her business statement, with her Minister for finance hat point of view, that, clearly, decarbonisation is something that she's questioning us all on as we start the budget process—well, we have started it, we've had the initial meeting, and, obviously, it will be intensified over the summer recess. I go back to what I was saying in my original statement: every Minister has to look at their policies and their proposals in relation to decarbonisation and climate change, and, clearly, there will have to be movement of finances within every Minister's portfolios. 

I think also, when I received the UK Committee on Climate Change's advice around the 95 per cent target—that is relying on retaining the industrial base that we have and decarbonising it, rather than offshoring emissions, and I'm pleased that you welcome that, because I think it is really important to be globally responsible.

You talked about the future generations commissioner's 10-point climate emergency plan and the headlines. We obviously received that report last week. I think we did have it about 24 hours before it was made public, and, certainly, she's on the same side as us, and I very much welcome her contribution to this debate. I think it would be good for all public bodies. I've been very pleased that since we announced the climate emergency, since we declared the climate emergency, so many local authorities have come on board. And they say that it's because the Welsh Government led the way that they followed.

Last Thursday, the First Minister and I attended Natural Resources Wales offices here in Cardiff to have a presentation on what they've done since the Welsh Government announced, declared, the climate emergency. And they said it really made them look at what they're doing. And they've really led the way around the Carbon Positive project. I don't know if colleagues are aware of it; it's worth looking at. So, I think it's good to see public bodies in particular looking at what they can do, and also the private sector and businesses. And I think it was in the statement last Tuesday that I mentioned that I'd gone to the economic council that's chaired by my colleague Ken Skates, because business specifically asked if I would go, so they could talk about their response to the climate emergency and climate change. 

You asked quite a few questions around energy generation, and before, when planning was in my portfolio—and I think my portfolio is big enough, and I think it's good that I can work collaboratively with Julie James as the housing and planning Minister. We're a small Government and we work very collaboratively across the Government. But one of the last things I did before I had planning taken out of this portfolio was look at ensuring that fossil fuel applications and licences was absolutely at the bottom of the energy hierarchy, and we have a huge focus on renewable energy projects. And there are now more than 67,000—I was quite astounded at the number—of renewable energy projects here in Wales. And, now, 22 per cent of electricity—well, this is back in 2017—in Wales was generated from renewables. And you ask whether we should just be looking after own energy, or whether we should be looking to export. And I think, as we go forward, we might see a difference and an adjustment in that. 

You mentioned forestry, and I am not going to defend our tree planting. We're not planting enough trees. I've made that very clear—that we need to be looking at that—and, again, I will have to find funding within my budget, and, certainly, I think, again, I've mentioned previously in the Chamber that I am looking with NRW, because they do have land ready for reforestation, to see what funding we can do. You'll be aware of the First Minister's commitment in his manifesto to a national forest, and I've just received some options today, actually, which I need to look at. But, clearly, forestry is an important element of our land management policy that we will have post Brexit, and you'll be aware I'm going out to consultation in early July.

I think you're right about house building. I would like to ramp up our retrofitting schemes and programmes. We've made some significant advances and progress in the number of houses that we've retrofitted. But, again, the budget is the budget, and we are putting, I think, about £250 million into retrofitting and our energy efficiency programmes in the lifetime of this Government. What I think is really important—and I think the First Minister mentioned this in his questions—is that we're not building houses now that will need retrofitting 25 years, 20 years down the line.

You mentioned about the report I think that David Melding brought forward. And I did speak to David after last week's statement to say I'd be very interested to hear about his proposals for zero-carbon housing, and I hope we can meet in the near future.

You asked about the two groups we're setting up. I can't tell you how many groups I have. I certainly haven't got 40; I don't have many groups. But I do think, going forward we've made it very clear that the next plan that we bring forward next year needs to be an all-Wales one, and we need to bring everybody with us. And, of course, there are experts out there who can help us with this. And I'm always really pleased how many people are very willing to give of their time to help us as a Government. I referred to the industry group. Officials have already been actively engaging with industrial stakeholders, and I mentioned the economic council—the board members of that had asked me to go along to talk about the challenges and the opportunities. So, officials are already looking at establishing that group. It hasn't been established yet—it will be established this year, and it will be a pan-Wales working group.

The Climate Just advisory group, which was announced when the First Minister launched the carbon delivery plan, will advise us on the transition away from a fossil fuel-based economy, ensuring—and this is really important for me and for the Government—a fair and equitable transition for all of our society, and that includes all our workers and communities.

May I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon? I've expressed a view on 'A Low Carbon Wales', the document published, of course, and the element of frustration I feel that what that is is a collection of announcements that have previously been made to a great extent. And since then, we have declared a climate emergency, and it's positive that the Minister has asked her officials to look again at those commitments in that document, but I would like to hear from the Minister that the amended document will be far more ambitious and far more far-reaching than what we've seen in the past to reflect the climate challenge facing us. I'd also like to know exactly when we will see that amended document. Because as we have now declared a crisis, one would suggest that that work should move on swiftly.

You mention in your statement the role of industry, the role of transport and the role of the construction sector, and I would agree that they have a crucial contribution to make. But there's an irony here, of course, because just three years ago the Government consulted on changing Part L of the construction regulations related to energy efficiency in new homes. They consulted on strengthening that to 25 per cent or 40 per cent, and then settled for 8 per cent, and when we in Plaid Cymru opposed that, you voted us down, saying that 8 per cent was to be your target, and now you're saying, ‘Well, we have to do more to ensure that new homes are more energy efficient.’ Well, where have you been for three years? And therefore I would ask you to consider that, but that's no reason, of course, not to go further and more quickly, and I would like to see you doing that.

But in your statement, you're quite right in saying that every Minister should review his or her actions, and I would welcome that. What you don't say is, of course, by what point they will do that—what is the timetable for them? We are in a crisis, so should we expect statements from every Minister before the summer recess? I see nothing in the business statement that that's to happen. So, at the earliest, we’re talking about mid or late September, and, that's four or five months after declaring a climate emergency in Wales, and we still don't know what the response of most Government Ministers is.

You’ve stated that you will do more to decarbonise buildings that already exist by expanding retrofit programmes, and I welcome that warmly. I would like to hear more detail as to how you intend to do that. What would be the scale of the new programme? How much budget will you have to spend on this work, because the future generations commissioner, as we know, has published a 10-point plan last week that suggested between £200 million and £300 million per annum on retrofitting? That's the kind of figure that she had in mind. So, what kind of figure do you have in mind? And you have touched upon that 10-point plan in an earlier response, but, of course, that's mainly a challenge in terms of the Welsh budget. You say that the commissioner is on the same side as you—well, I'm sure that is the case, but the challenge, of course, is there’s £1 billion to invest in this agenda. So, what case are you, as Minister, making to the Finance Minister, because we would have expected, for example, in the supplementary budget published last week, that the Government's response could be seen clearly to the climate crisis? But what have we had? Nothing. It's business as usual, to all intents and purposes. So, we will be looking with great interest at the next supplementary budget when it’s published, as well as, of course, the draft budget for next year, which will be published by Government in the autumn.

Finally—and it's a minor detail, but I do think it's very significant indeed—you say in your statement this afternoon that you will launch your consultation on your land management policy at the Royal Welsh Show. Now, on 15 May, you said in this Chamber, and I quote:

'I have committed to go into a second consultation ahead of the Royal Welsh Show.'

It's only one word, but I think there is a fundamental difference there, because I want to understand why the change? Why the delay? Because it is disappointing. I would have assumed that announcing the consultation before the show would give you, as a Government, and you, as Minister, and the rest of us an opportunity to have a far more meaningful discussion, where stakeholders and the wider public would have had an opportunity to consider what’s contained within that document in the greatest event of the rural calendar of Wales, rather than turning up, announcing that the statement is to be made and not giving us an opportunity to air these crucial issues at that crucial event.

I'll start with that last question from Llyr, and I would suggest, with respect, that at the bottom of the oral statement that you were given as a spokesperson, it does say 'check against delivery'. And when I was reading out the oral statement I did say I would be launching the consultation ahead of the Royal Welsh Show. So, I'm sorry if you didn't hear me say that, but if you want to check the Record, I definitely did say it. And I will—I do remain committed to launching the sustainable land management consultation early next month. So, I do accept why you thought that, but, as I say, it does say 'check against delivery'. 

Regarding the future generations commissioner, I think the information she sent in her 10-point plant is very helpful. She doesn't say where we should get the £1 billion from. I don't know where we can get the £1 billion from. But, clearly, when Ministers review their policies and proposals, which they have to do, there's no doubt that the fact that we're now in the first carbon budget period, for instance—we are having to look at things differently. And those discussions will be ongoing. You've heard the Trefnydd say in business statement that she's already started to have those discussions.

Every six weeks or so I chair the decarbonisation ministerial Cabinet sub-committee, and we're meeting tomorrow. And I will be asking Ministers what they've done in relation to reviewing their policies and proposals. You asked for a time limit, and I did the lobby briefing this morning on behalf of the Welsh Government where I was asked that question, and I think that's a very fair question. We can't do it before the summer recess, and I would think, when we have had that review of all our proposals and policies, it could take several months to bring it all together. But that doesn't mean work isn't ongoing, because clearly it is. But in these times of austerity and all the calls on the Welsh Government budget, to find £1 billion in a year is completely unrealistic I think.

And I think that is one of the things about the low carbon delivery plan. It's ambitious, but it's realistic. And the UK CCC, when I met them ahead of them giving us the advice—I think it was probably two meetings back—agreed that the low carbon delivery plan was ambitious and if we were able to fulfil all the policies and proposals in there, we would be well on the way to achieving our targets. I think, looking at the energy efficiency schemes, we have increased the number of houses that we have retrofitted from an energy efficiency point of view. Of course, that has not just an impact on our emissions but it also helps people in fuel poverty, and I was very pleased to see the data that came forward in relation to that last week or the week before, and I would encourage Members to have a look at that.

The low carbon delivery plan does set out sector by sector all the different departments across Government and what is required by them. It was only launched in March, and I do appreciate the world has moved, because of the advice that we have received not just from the inter-governmental panel but also from the UK CCC. I asked the UK CCC why they didn't give us 100 per cent, you know, the net zero carbon reduction, because we were the only country that they didn't do that with, and they say the same as me—targets have to be realistic. But I have said that we have the ambition to reduce our carbon emissions by 100 per cent by 2050 and I think that's the right thing to do. It's important now that we work with the groups that I mentioned in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies to make sure that we work with stakeholders to achieve that. 

Thank you very much, Minister, for your statement. I'm interested in the fact you state quite openly that the Government—there are certain matters beyond your control. So, the Aberthaw power station is obviously—we can't close it; we have to wait for the UK Government to do the right thing. But it's great to hear that we already have 48 per cent of our energy from renewable sources, and clearly it'd be fantastic to see many more community-led projects. 

I'm keen to understand how the Government plans to encourage uptake of low-emissions vehicles, because every time I escape to go on holiday I need to go up the A470 and I need to be able to get back from north Wales. There are lots of good locations along the A470 for putting in electric vehicle charging points, but to my knowledge there aren't any at the moment, which means I simply can't rely on this mode of transport and am unable to invest in an electric vehicle. I'm also very glad to see that Wales is not going to clean up our act in this country by dumping it on poor countries, offshoring our emissions. I think this is absolutely crucial.

I think, in relation to horticulture, Brexit sharpens our attention as to where we're going to source our vegetables and fruit that we currently import, and I'm not terribly keen to be hearing that fresh veg is going to be substituted by tinned and frozen vegetables, but that's better than nothing. But we clearly need to be growing more of our own. In the cross-party group on food, we heard that Castell Howell, which is obviously one of the main distributors of food, only source 18 per cent of their supplies from Welsh producers. So, I think there's a lot we can do to reduce our food miles, both in relation to food security issues posed by Brexit and the threat of a 'no deal', but also just in order to clean up our act. If we have food produced locally, we're obviously going to be using a lot less carbon. So, I just wondered if the Government could say a little bit more about how we're going to do that. 

Thank you, Jenny Rathbone. You're quite right about Aberthaw. So, the UK Government is planning to close Aberthaw in 2025; we don't have the power to do that earlier. The significant decrease we had in 2017 from carbon emissions, at 25 per cent, was due to coal generation not being used, Aberthaw not being used, so many days as the previous year. But I think you're right about being globally responsible. We need coal to make steel. We could import steel from other countries, but then that would not be being globally responsible in my opinion. You quite rightly pointed out that 48 per cent of our electricity comes from renewable energy. So, again, we're well on the target that I set of 70 per cent by 2030—I think I set that target back in December 2017—and the local energy service that we have is working very hard with individuals, with communities, to try to bring on more renewable energy projects. 

In relation to low-emission vehicles, I work closely with Ken Skates in this area. There are over 600 publicly accessible charging points in Wales at the moment, and I know from my discussions with the Minister that there are plans for the private sector, certainly, to now really up the number of those publicly accessible charging points. But, you're quite right, people need to have the confidence to purchase an electric car, knowing they can get from Cardiff to Wrexham or any other part of Wales. So, I think it is really important. But we do envisage the majority of electric vehicle chargers being rolled out by the private sector, and I know the Minister, who's just come into the Chamber, is engaging with charge point providers to gain some insight into their investment priorities and ensure that that provision across Wales can be encouraged. 

Horticulture—I know the Member is passionate about horticulture, and it only makes up—I think it's less than 1 per cent of our agricultural sector, so there are huge opportunities for horticulture in our post-Brexit sustainable land policies, and it's something that I'm personally very keen to see. I visited a horticultural farm, if that's the right term, in west Wales last year and it was just brilliant to see the Welsh produce that was available. And, as you say, if we can reduce our food miles in the way you suggest, that will benefit everybody. 

Can I very much welcome the statement? I'm very pleased that we are again discussing what I consider to be the major issue facing us in Wales. We can either decarbonise or look for a new world to inhabit, because, if we don't, this world will not be able to sustain human life. We are facing a serious climate change emergency, and we've got to address it.

I have three questions, and the first one is probably the most important: battery technology. Many of us have visited the Solcer House, and they were using car batteries in order to store electricity. We know that people would like to use electric cars, but they'd like to use electric cars that have batteries that can be charged very easily and very quickly, or where you could have a two-battery system, where you could just swap the battery around in order that you use one, leave the other one at home on charge, and then swap them around. What progress is being made in battery technology? Because, with both cars and houses, unless we get the battery technology right, then we're not going to really get the decarbonisation we want to.

The second question is: what is being done to ensure that hydrogen generated for vehicles is produced using renewable energy? Because I see people talking about hydrogen as a renewable—it is—but it takes energy to create the hydrogen in the first place. So, if you're going to use gas-powered generators to generate the electricity to produce the hydrogen, you're actually doing something that is environmentally less friendly. Everybody says, 'It's hydrogen, it must be good'—it's how you get to the hydrogen. And, if you're using electrolysis, you're going to need a lot of electricity in order to split the hydrogen and oxygen, or hydrogen and nitrogen, or hydrogen and whatever elements you wish to have it with.

The third point is: more trees. I don't believe you can ever have too many trees, and I think that we ought to have a lot more woodland than we've got now. But have the Welsh Government got any thoughts on trying to create a series of urban forests around urban areas, like the one in Maesteg that Huw Irranca-Davies speaks very highly of? There are lots of other areas, including around eastern Swansea, where we have areas that could be easily covered in trees to the benefit to the environment. Also, we talk about forestry—forestry is a commercial enterprise. We talk about subsidising forestry—forestry for a lot of people is a means of making money. Even Natural Resources Wales, surely, can make money out of forestry.

Thank you, Mike Hedges. You are quite right; climate change is the biggest threat that we are facing, and the advice that we're receiving is we've got 12 years to turn this around, and it could be that we are the last generation that can do that, and it's really important that we take the opportunity and that our children and grandchildren don't turn around and say, 'Why didn't you do something about it when you could?'

Mike Hedges raises a very important point, I think, around battery technology. I've been to the Solcer House—it was probably about two and a half years ago, and I remember thinking the batteries were very large that they were using then. Clearly, there's a lot of research and development going on to ensure that battery storage is getting smaller, because people will not have the room to have those large batteries. This goes for hydrogen as well—I think it's really important that we're not bringing forward technologies that people can't use easily. So, batteries are a classic example. We also need to make sure that the infrastructure is there. So, the national grid needs to be reinforced in parts of Wales—certainly mid Wales—and that's a matter for the UK Government to ensure is happening, and I'm having those discussions both with the National Grid and officials have also raised it with the UK Government.

Later this week, I'll be attending the British-Irish Council, alongside the First Minister, where energy is the topic. So, I'm very much looking forward to talking with colleagues from across the UK Government, the devolved administrations, and, of course, the Crown dependencies as to what they're doing. I'm sure there will be a lot we can learn.

Trees—I go back to my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies: we are not planting enough trees. You're quite right; there are commercial interests as well. It's not just down to Government to plant trees; there are lots of organisations that can help us. NRW, certainly, I think should be planting more trees, and I'm looking, as I said in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies, to see what funding we can help them with.

I think you make a very good point about urban forests. The First Minister's manifesto commitment around a national forest—I think, in the beginning, when we were discussing a national forest, I was thinking of a forest. But, clearly, the options I've asked officials to work up point to many more smaller forests around Wales being joined up, but I've only received those options today. I will need to discuss them further with the First Minister, but I think there are opportunities to link up the forests with the coast path, for instance, to ensure that people recognise what they are and what they're for.

We have several schemes. You'll be aware of the Size of Wales scheme. We're now at twice the size of Wales schemes, with the number of trees that we've planted. And, of course, our Plant! scheme was set up back in 2008 to plant a tree for every child born and adopted in Wales—since 2014, we've planted a tree in Wales and we've also planted a tree in Uganda. 

You say in your statement, Minister, at least in the written version, that you've committed us to going even further, in achieving net zero emissions no later than 2050, yet you said in reply to Llyr Gruffydd that that was downgraded to an ambition, and we're legislating just for a 95 per cent cut, not for net zero. In what sense, then, are you committed to net zero instead of the 95 per cent reduction? Could you also—? I know you weren't able to last week, and, if you can't now, could you perhaps give me a timetable when you might be able to do this—what is your policy in terms of international offsetting? Will it be allowed, and, if so, will there be a limit placed on it?

I think your statement today is very timely, after the vote in the Commons—or not a vote in the Commons last night; it went through without even a vote—to change the 80 per cent reduction up to this far higher amount. I wonder about the cost of that. We have at least semi-official estimates of £50 billion or £70 billion a year, and I think it's much more sensible to focus on the annual cost than it is adding it up over an unknown period to get £1 trillion-plus scary numbers. But, if it is this £50 billion or £70 billion a year, then I welcome this process of carbon budget setting, of looking at what are the implications of this,  because I think it's very easy for politicians to make great commitments for a long time in the future to synthesise a legacy for Theresa May or whatever other motivations there may be, but it's only when they come down to looking at what are the implications of this, what are the costs, what are the trade-offs, that, actually, you engage in real policy. And I think, with a 40 per cent or so cut in carbon dioxide emissions across the UK since 1990, we were leading the world in that and making really quite big strides in this area. I'm just concerned that, by lumping that up from 80 per cent to 95 per cent or 100 per cent without explaining how we're going to do that, there may again become a detachment between our ambitions and reality, or what our constituents would be prepared to accept in this area, given the trade-offs involved.

You mentioned that coal is required at Port Talbot to make steel. How, then, do we decarbonise that process while retaining the industry? What is the intention in terms of gas boilers? To come anywhere near this, you're going to have to get rid of everyone's gas boilers. Are you looking to replace them with electric—currently three times the cost—or would you have hydrogen instead, and, if so, how on earth does one get to a situation where one cuts off the gas and puts in hydrogen at a point in time instead? How do you co-ordinate people's boilers for that?

And could I ask you, finally, just to clarify a little further around this electricity production point? What's your assumption about what's going to happen with Aberthaw B that's so huge in terms of its implications in this area, and are you saying that as Welsh Government policy you would like to see a greater emphasis on autarchy and less in the way of exporting to England in electricity? What's wrong with exporting power to England? Is that a bad thing? If so, what do you intend to do about it?

Thank you, Mark Reckless, for those questions. We accepted the UKCCC's advice around a 95 per cent reduction. That was a significant increase from the 80 per cent that they said last year, and I have committed to legislate next year to increase our emissions reduction target from at least 80 per cent to 95 per cent by 2050. That's in line, obviously, with the UK accepting a net zero target. But I did signal an ambition to develop a net zero target, and we now need to work—and I think I outlined this in my answer to Llyr Huws Gruffydd—we now need to work with the UKCCC—if I am at all concerned, I will ask for further advice—and other stakeholders to identify the ways in which a more ambitious target could be met. If we had said we would only accept 100 per cent—as it is now, by having that ambition, we are going further than any other UK Government.

I think what the UKCCC's advice does is that it recognises that we do need a collective approach across the UK, with everyone playing their part. So, I think it's really important that where the UK Government hold the levers, I encourage action from them. On the cost of it, we have to recognise the cost of not doing this, and it's hugely significant both in financial and, obviously, in human cost. Wales has already been badly affected by climate change, and it's right that we do take this very seriously. And I go back to the low-carbon delivery plan; it's important that every Minister reviews their policies and proposals to do that.

I'm not sure if you've read the low-carbon delivery plan because you asked me the same question, but I really would encourage you to do that, and you will see the way we set out around the emissions and how we're accepting them, and how we are ensuring our global responsibilities. So, I said we still need coal to make steel and we could import steel, but, for me, that wouldn't be globally responsible. So, it's important that we work with Tata and other businesses to ensure how they look at innovative ways to ensuring that they're not so fossil fuel dependent in the coming years.

I think it's really important that we see an increase in UK Government support for steel-related R&D, not just here in Wales but across the UK, and I think as part of the industrial strategy we should be calling for more funding for this. I think it's also important that the UK Government reduce the still significant energy price differential that we have, and that means UK-based energy-intensive industries, and that includes steel, continue to pay more for their energy than their European competitors.

Is it a bad thing to export electricity to England? No, but you will understand that it's UK Government decisions that have placed much more fossil fuel generation in Wales, and that's why our emissions are much higher in Wales.   

And finally, Joyce Watson. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I want to just highlight in terms of woodland that 15 per cent of land cover in Wales is the coverage of woodland, against the 37 per cent that is the EU average. So, therefore, to catch up we would have to have an extra 22 per cent land coverage of woodland. And I just put that there, because you've given lots of answers. But there is also another factor in all of this. The UK Government's advisory board have suggested that the grassland that is used for animal grazing might be reduced by 25 per cent by 2050 to help cut carbon emissions, and we all know that producing red meat really does increase the carbon emissions on so many levels that, really, we have to question what we are doing. And that is in terms of everybody playing their part, as you said in your statement. And I did call for a plant-based choice on school meals just the other week. So, maybe, you know, we can start looking at balancing these things. I'm not a vegetarian, I'm not a vegan, and, yes, I do myself eat red meat, but I eat less of it now and that's the point I'm trying to make.

The other thing I think that we could really look at: under the future generations and well-being Act, we have a duty not to create a consequence on another country. So, when we're looking—and I mean us as governments and public bodies more widely—sourcing materials, whether that's for the desks we're leaning on or the chairs we're sitting on, we should make sure that they're coming from sustainable forestry, and that we're not importing and helping to create a problem for somebody else. That is writ large in that future generations and well-being Act—that we don't create harm somewhere else.

My final point here is: you may be aware that there's a campaign going on at the moment to try and save Trecadwgan farm in Solva for the public. The council own this particular smallholding and there will be lots of smallholdings owned by other councils across Wales. Again, I ask you if you will look at advising local authorities, and being advised ourselves, that if we're thinking of disposing of any land, we need to think about handing it back, first of all, to the community, when actually it's owned by the community in the first place. Because the council or any public body doesn't actually own anything; it's the ratepayer who owns it, and the ratepayer should have the first option of trying to do something productive with it. 

Thank you, Joyce Watson, for that series of questions and observations. Just talking about smallholdings, when I came into portfolio three years ago, I was very keen to do a piece of work with local authorities around the number of smallholdings that were being sold off. I understood they were doing them quite often because of financial pressures, however once that smallholding is lost, it's lost forever, particularly if it's sold, obviously, for house building, for instance. So, I think we have seen a smaller number of smallholdings being sold off. I'm not aware of the particular one you mentioned, but I will certainly look into that.

I think the point you raised about importing—. I gave the example of importing coal for steel making and how it would be wrong for us, I believe, as a globally responsible country to import steel, but I think you took it down to an individual level, which I think is really important, and the choices we make around our purchases, for instance. I think once of the reasons for declaring a climate emergency was to galvanise people into action and it wasn't just governance, it wasn't just local authorities, it wasn't just businesses; it was individuals as well. I think that you've given a very good example of how people, when they're purchasing anything, do it from a sustainable point of view. 

You mentioned woodland, and new planting has been shown to give considerable gains in carbon sequestration, which is why we have now committed to planting 2,000 hectares a year from 2020 to 2030. We've also linked our Glastir woodland creation support to the woodland carbon code. There's a really significant piece of research being undertaken by Cambridge university at the moment to investigate technological solutions to challenges related to climate change, and that focuses on what a positive role woodland can play. Certainly, whilst I appreciate it can take a long time for trees to mature—and this is a conversation I've had with farmers, who sometimes are reluctant to plant more trees because they know that piece of land will be tied up for many, many years. You might be aware the National Farmers Union has actually said they'll be carbon-neutral by 2040, which is incredibly ambitious, so I think the agricultural sector is very very keen and take their role very seriously. Obviously, we can look at this as part of our post-Brexit sustainable land management policy.

Thank you very much, Minister.