8. Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government’s 21st Century Schools Programme in Carmarthenshire? OAQ54172

The first five-year phase of the twenty-first century schools and education programme will see £87 million invested in the rebuild and refurbishment of schools in Carmarthenshire. A further £129.5 million has been earmarked for the second phase of the programme from April 2019, subject, of course, to the usual process of business cases being dealt with.

I'm grateful to the Minister for her reply. I'd like to suggest, Minister, this afternoon—to offer you the opportunity to congratulate the governors, the local authority, staff and school pupils at Pontyberem school, which has had substantial investment from the twenty-first century schools fund and is going to be reopened on Monday. I know that you've received an invitation and, unfortunately, you're not able to be with us that day, but I think you will—and I hope that you will—acknowledge that it's been a really effective piece of work that's made really good use of existing estate, that we don't always have to build from scratch—even though sometimes we might want to—but we don't always need to build from scratch to make real difference to the environment in which our teachers are working in and in which our pupils are learning. I hope you will also join me in congratulating Carmarthenshire in being really proactive in making sure that they make the best use of those resources that are available. And, most of all, I hope that you'll wish the parents and pupils and all of us a really happy day on Monday, because it certainly is something to celebrate.

Well, can I thank the Member for bringing to the attention of the whole Assembly the official opening of Ysgol Ponyberem next week? I'm very disappointed that I'm not able to attend. One of the most wonderful aspects of being the Minister for Education is to be able to travel the length and breadth of the nation opening new buildings, whether that be a complete new build or very, very successful refurbishments or extensions on the existing school estate.

I'm sure the Member would share my ambition that children and those who educate and work with them deserve to do that important work in buildings that are fit for purpose and allow them to make the most of those opportunities. Although sometimes, perhaps, from time from time, relations between Welsh Government and local government can get a bit feisty, the strong partnership working between local authorities across Wales and the Welsh Government has made this capital investment programme, I think, one of the most successful capital programmes that the Welsh Government has enjoyed, because of that close partnership working between us and our local authorities. I commend all of those who are working really, really hard to get these buildings up and open and I hope they have a wonderful, wonderful day.

Minister, the mutual investment model that finances most of the twenty-first century schools programme in Carmarthenshire and throughout the rest of Wales is a really welcome evolution from the old-fashioned PFI, but, of course, with all of these issues, there's always a balance to be had between loss of control and being able to be fiscally exposed. Now, the mutual investment model does have a fiscal exposure for the Government and for local authorities and I just wanted to understand a little bit more clearly what your opportunity and risk evaluation process is to ensure that things such as the lack of ability to profit-cap or cost overruns, project overruns, and, of course, the higher rate of borrowing—how that impacts the twenty-first century schools programme.

Well, Angela, you're right; the MIM—the mutual investment model—does give us the opportunity as a Government, working alongside partners, to be able to lever in an additional £500 million-worth of resource into the programme, which allows us to complete even more refurbishment and new-build projects. That needs to be managed very carefully, and local authorities and FE colleges that are involved in that process need to be supported with the skills alongside the skills that they would have in-house. We're currently working as a Government with our partners to develop a model that will provide that support, which in turn itself will try and safeguard individual councils or colleges from the problems that you've just identified. And I'd be very happy to update Members when a final decision around that has been made, which is imminent.