The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.

The next item is the Welsh Conservatives’ debate on the ambition of the ‘Cymraeg 2050’ strategy of reaching a million Welsh speakers in a generation. I call on Suzy Davies to move the motion

Motion NDM7111 Darren Millar

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the cross-party support within the Assembly for the ambition of the Cymraeg 2050 strategy of reaching one million Welsh speakers in a generation.

2. Recognises that the success of the strategy is dependent, in part, on:

a) creating more opportunities for people to use and develop their Welsh language skills in the workplace as well as in the community;

b) convincing businesses that there is commercial advantage in promoting a bilingual identity;

c) achieving a balance and flexibility between legislative and non-legislative steps to achieve this, and acknowledging that 99 per cent of Welsh enterprises are micro, small, or medium in size;

d) identifying and delivering value-for-money through increased use of Welsh in the workplace rather than the introduction of requirements which do not achieve this and which are not considered a priority by Welsh speakers.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to update the Assembly via oral statements every six months on progress made in relation to Cymraeg 2050.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to report to the Assembly before the end of 2019 on the effectiveness of its current promotion of the Welsh language to businesses, as distinct from the work of the Welsh Language Commissioner.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to appoint a network of Welsh language business champions to promote the use of the language by micro, small and medium sized enterprises.

6. Calls on the Welsh Government to consider further reform of the role of the Welsh Language Commissioner to permit investigation of claims by both Welsh and non-Welsh speakers regarding breaches of their language rights.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Could I thank Members in advance for their contributions to today’s taster debate on one small area of the Welsh Government’s strategy for a million Welsh speakers by 2050? As you can see from the motion, I didn’t want to do a broad sweep over the strategy or do a deep dive. This is an opportunity to discuss how to improve the scrutiny of the strategy and additional ideas on how to strengthen the part of it that deals with small and medium-sized enterprises—by far the largest cohort of businesses in Wales.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I will deal with the amendments in summing up, if I may, but I will start by moving the motion and reflecting on how we could help our small businesses to access the benefits of bilingualism, by looking at points 2 and 5. We are now three years into the Government’s strategy and the Government says that it’s on track to meet its early years education target by 2021. But it is very quiet on all the other targets.

Regarding the issue of working with adults in work today, the work undertaken by the National Centre for Learning Welsh has primarily focused on the public sector. The previous commissioner had some success in changing the culture and provision of larger private businesses, and that’s a point that deserves recognition, but her reach did not extend to smaller companies. Mentrau iaith are very different in terms of their skills, finance, experience and ambition, but it’s not easy to quantify their success in creating more opportunities for people to use and develop their Welsh language skills in the workplace as well as in the community.

I’m not convinced that everything, or anything perhaps, that the Welsh Government has funded or supported has made any significant or long-lasting progress in terms of persuading our smaller businesses of the advantages of bilingualism. There is research to support the claim that a bilingual offer and a bilingual workplace are beneficial, but how is that being shared with our chambers of commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, the CBI and other membership organisations, for example—organisations that are not full of Government appointees or first-language Welsh speakers?

Small business managers have goodwill towards the Welsh language, but they need incentives to act regarding its usage. That could be demand among staff or customers, it could be direct funding, it could be legislative measures, but we need to be very careful there, as the motion suggests, or it could change the voice of advocacy. I have to say that the first-language-Welsh establishment voice is not necessarily a voice that will persuade smaller companies to listen to the arguments in favour of welcoming bilingualism—'I'm sure it will be a good idea, but for other people'—unless they can see the benefits that are of value to them.

Business, in my opinion, needs to talk directly to business. That’s why we want to see language champions from within the business world: co-production, transition, learners who know how difficult it is to make progress with the language, and those who understand the bottom line too. Perhaps we will have a more bilingual population 20 years from now, but we have to think about the workforce and the customers of today too. Your 14 officers will have an uphill struggle, Minister, unless they are on the inside, and it is a shame that you have disregarded that by removing this part of the motion. Apparently, in deleting points 3 and 4, you’re not prepared to be scrutinised on your progress either. It doesn’t matter how many business officers you have or how many community organisations you support if the use of Welsh isn’t expanding in the workplace, or if we don’t persuade businesses of its potential as a USP. But, given your amendment, you obviously don’t want us to ask you questions about that at all.

Finally, I turn to the purpose of point 6. We often pass laws in this place that create rights and duties without any remedy for non-compliance. Unusually, we didn’t do that with the creation of the Welsh Language Commissioner; we gave the office powers of investigation, enforcement when standards are not used and rights are breached. But there is no such solution if the rights of a non-Welsh speaker are breached. If Welsh language standards are applied disproportionately so that those actions exclude someone who does not speak Welsh from having an opportunity, that person can only resort to the courts. We’ve all heard complaints when some public sector job adverts, for example, don’t require a certain level of Welsh when they should. And of course everyone can go to the commissioner in that situation. But the potential is there in the other direction as well, and so I ask Members to think about how we could treat both situations fairly in terms of a remedy when both languages should be treated on the basis of equality. Our proposal doesn’t undermine the rights of Welsh speakers, and if you want to say that this is not an issue for the commissioner, fine, but please say what your idea is as regards creating equal remedies in terms of unconscious discrimination.

The reasons I raise this argument is this: the workplace can be the perfect place to develop and use Welsh language skills. Look at Members in this Chamber who have never used Welsh before, particularly in the workplace. And look at the Assembly staff. I would like to see employers think a little bit more about opportunities for dedicated and committed learners as well as fluent speakers when they consider job advertisements, for example, because if we lose the faith of our learners, we will lose the Welsh language.

Thank you. I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. 

Can I ask the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans?

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete points 2–6 and replace with:

Acknowledges that the Cymraeg 2050 strategy has three elements which pave the way for reaching a million Welsh speakers, namely:

a) increasing the number of speakers through the Cymraeg i Blant / Cymraeg for Kids programme, the improved Welsh in Education Strategic Plans and the new approach to teaching Welsh through the National Centre for Learning Welsh;

b) increasing the everyday use of the language in workplaces, businesses and in the community;

c) providing a solid infrastructure as a basis for all actions which includes public buy-in, linguistic infrastructure, and technology.

Celebrates since the launch of Cymraeg 2050, the Welsh Government has made significant progress in the following areas:

a) increasing the number of Cylchoedd Meithrin and Cylchoedd Ti a Fi in order to set more children on the journey into Welsh medium education;

b) moving from assessing the demand to creating the demand for Welsh medium education in order to increase the number of speakers via the Welsh in Education Strategic Plans;

c) launching a new Welsh Language Technology Action Plan which sets out the vision for Welsh to be readily available in technology;

d) funding the National Centre for Learning Welsh to provide the Cymraeg Gwaith / Work Welsh scheme to develop the Welsh language skills of workers within targeted sectors, including the apprenticeship sector;

e) the provision of almost £60 million of capital funding for early years, education and the renovation of Neuadd Pantycelyn and the Urdd facilities at Glan-llyn and Llangrannog;

f) funding 14 business officers across Wales to offer practical advice and tools to help businesses use more Welsh. A helpline will be launched soon to assist with information about the Welsh language, signposting and short translations.

Notes the Welsh Government’s active participation in the UN International Year for Indigenous Languages as a platform to celebrate Wales as an outward facing bilingual nation.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

Thank you. I call on Delyth Jewell to move amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Delyth.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Recognises that implementing the aspiration of the strategy requires strategic planning and practical intentional implementation in every area, especially in relation to education, economic development, community development, status and infrastructure of the Welsh language, the workplace and the family.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete point 6 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to introduce a timetable that permits the Welsh Language Commissioner to set Welsh language standards and expand the rights to use the Welsh language in the area of housing associations, water, postal services, transport, energy, telecommunications as well as adding new bodies to regulations that have already been passed.

Amendments 2 and 3 moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. As with any ambitious statement of intent on the kind of nation that we want to create here in Wales, be that a statement of a climate emergency or securing the future of the Welsh language, we must ensure that the ideal is reinforced in our actions and our political priorities. We must recognise that it’s no easy task to overturn the situation of the Welsh language, and it’s important not to oversimplify the scale of the challenge facing us in trying to secure 1 million Welsh speakers by the middle of the century. We believe that seeking to reach the ambition of 1 million Welsh speakers requires strategic action and firm responses in all areas, and the areas where this is important include education, economic development, community development, the status and infrastructure of the language, the workplace and the family. I would encourage Members, therefore, to support amendment 2.

The Government’s plans in terms of the Welsh language Bill actually were scrapped, which unfortunately reflects the general mess in terms of the way that the Government has tried to govern this term, with priorities and plans coming and going as Ministers change. This was a good thing in this case, because the proposals to scrap the commissioner's role would have been a retrograde step to 1993, rather than a step forward to 2050. While the demand for more transparency is to be welcomed, the emphasis now needs to be returned to implementing the strategy.

So, I have to say that I rolled my eyes on seeing the last section of the Conservative motion, which returns again the discussion on the role of the commissioner. I was disappointed this morning in hearing comments by the Conservative spokesperson on Radio Cymru, and they have been rehearsed again this afternoon in the Chamber, which undermined the purpose of this debate. It is mind-boggling that the priority of the Conservative Party seems to be to weaken measures to increase the number of Welsh speakers by enabling individuals to complain when jobs require Welsh language skills.

I just explained that there’s no reason at all to think that our purpose is to undermine the Welsh language rights and the purpose of the commissioner. What I want to do is to expand that to ensure that there’s no threat to Welsh language rights in an unconscious way.

Thank you, but, with respect, I would say that the purpose of the commissioner’s office is to safeguard and reinforce the status of the Welsh language, not non-Welsh speakers. I think that might confuse the function generally if it were to be done through the same office. But thank you for that intervention.

Perhaps it’ll come as no great surprise—and I would say this—when Conservative candidates in target seats publicly complain about bilingual signage and call for the abolition of this Parliament and, in that, any hope of increasing the number of Welsh speakers. I would urge the Conservative Party to please have a word with those people.

In concluding, I would also like to say that we do need to look at what needs to happen now. We need action from the Government rather than more dragging of feet, which is the basis of amendment 3. I think we have waited long enough for the introduction of the Welsh language standards in all the remaining areas, which are housing associations, buses and trains, energy and water, telecommunications companies, and so on and so forth. Where are they? I would urge the Minister to make a pledge in the Chamber this afternoon that a comprehensive timetable will be published before recess in responding to this debate. Thank you.

I want to start my contribution by saying that we on this side of the Chamber tabled this debate because we believe that the Welsh language is a huge asset for our people and our society. Indeed, the Conservatives have been very supportive of increasing access to the Welsh language over many decades. Wales has a long and rich history, and retaining the Welsh language is part of that. That is why we support the ambition of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050 and that is why we support creating more opportunities for people to develop their Welsh language skills in the workforce and the community, and that’s why we’re supporting further use of the language in business. It’s crucially important that we all work together, with our communities, with our businesses and with wider society to engender confidence in using the Welsh language in our daily lives. As politicians, our duty is to persuade and convince people of the merits and benefits of learning and using the Welsh language inside and outside business, but we as a nation are going to fall short of the target of a million Welsh speakers by 2050 unless we can get people to educate the next generation.

As I mentioned to the First Minister a month ago, the number of those currently undergoing teacher training who are able to teach through the medium of Welsh is at its lowest point for a decade and, unfortunately, at the moment there aren’t enough teachers choosing to teach through the medium of Welsh. We must change that. If this trend continues, we won’t unfortunately reach this important target by 2050. In her response to the debate this afternoon, perhaps the Minister can tell us what discussions she’s having with the education Minister and how we can change this situation and ensure that more teachers do enter teaching through the medium of Welsh in future. It’s important that we persuade more teachers to teach through the medium of Welsh because, unless we can do that, then persuading the next generation of entrepreneurs and business people to do this will be even more challenging.

Research by the commissioner’s office has shown that the food and drink industry has shown that using the Welsh language had a commercial value for those businesses and it retains and attracts customers. It delivers that USP that businesses need. That’s why we want to see an oral statement twice a year in this Chamber, from the Minister with responsibility for the Welsh language, so that we can monitor the development of the strategy, because we can’t scrutinise the Government here in three decades on the failings of the Government today.

So, how can we empower the next generation to build bilingual businesses? I’ve touched on education, but we also need to work with businesses, and the most effective way of encouraging truly bilingual business places is to promote a network of business facilitators that are run by business people for business people, and, in doing this, we could persuade businesses of the economic and social advantages of bilingualism in the workplace, and this will also provide confidence to those businesses to develop bilingualism within their businesses.

So, Deputy Presiding Officer, in conclusion, we need to increase the use of the Welsh language in the workplace on the basis of value for money, and provide empirical evidence as to why it would benefit businesses. Of course, the future of the Welsh language lies in the hands of those who have yet to learn the language, and it also is our hands, who have a duty to ensure that the language does survive.

Diolch. Can I now call the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language? Eluned Morgan.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to welcome the opportunity to have a debate on the Welsh language, and could I say how pleased I am to note the cross-party support for the 2050 strategy? Two years have passed since the 2050 strategy was launched, and a lot of good work has already been done, and I think that people are aware that this is an ambitious strategy and a challenging strategy but one that’s entirely realistic. And what we’ve done is taken robust steps. We’re not waiting until 2050 to measure the progress, as we have robust steps on that journey.

Because the Welsh language is owned by everyone in Wales and by every party, and I really want to thank the Conservative Party for leading this debate. I want to make it clear that, as we propose the amendments to the motion, we’re not trying to undermine the constructive motion by the Conservatives; we genuinely do welcome the support. We don’t want to hide from scrutiny either, but we want to provide a broader picture that reflects the work that we’re already doing.

Now, a lot of the things that we’re doing include those things in the early years. We’ve increased the number of cylchoedd meithrin to start those children on the journey towards a Welsh-medium education, and there are 12 cylchoedd meithrin that have been established in the first year of the programme to increase the number of these groups, and more will open this year.

In terms of education, through the WESPs we have moved from measuring the demand and responding to that to creating the demand for Welsh-medium education in order to increase the number of Welsh speakers. We’ve provided capital funding of nearly £60 million for the early years. And, on top of that, we have provided funding to renew the iconic Pantycelyn hall and the Urdd facilities in Glan-llyn and Llangrannog.

In terms of skills, we’ve funded the National Centre for Learning Welsh to teach the Working Welsh scheme, which supports workers in specific sectors including childcare and apprenticeships. I think it’s fair to say that people from the private sector have also engaged with some of the courses that have been provided. This work is building on the centre's support for the further education sector during 2018-19.

In terms of technology, in October last year we launched the Welsh language technology action plan, which sets out our vision for ensuring that the Welsh language is readily available in the field of technology. And, in terms of business, I want to draw the Senedd’s attention to the fact that we have already appointed a network of champions for the Welsh language in the world of business. We’re funding 14 business officers across Wales, and what they are doing is offering and support on a practical level to help businesses use more Welsh.

And I do think that it’s important that we do underline the fact that we do agree that we need to strike an appropriate balance between regulating and promoting in order to help businesses, particularly small businesses, to be bilingual. Because we know—and I agree with Suzy on this—that it’s not the establishment that’s going to persuade SMEs to engage with using the Welsh language, but they may respond to the fact that bilingual provision can attract more business. We know that that's true.

We’re eager to ensure that Welsh speakers can obtain a Welsh language service easily, and of the same quality as English services, but then Welsh speakers do need to make use of those services, and that isn’t happening to the extent that it should be at present.

The role of the commissioner is vital, of course. Aled Roberts started as the new commissioner on 1 April this year and we’re appointing new members now to the advisory panel. We need to ask the question that’s been asked by Suzy, whether the role of the commissioner should be broadened. Well, the statutory role of the commissioner is to promote and facilitate the use of the Welsh language and we would need to change legislation in terms of investigating complaints on other languages, and we don’t want to go down that path.

Now that Aled is in post and that the Bill has been set aside, I’ve committed to looking again at the role of the Government, the commissioner and the main partners so that everyone is entirely clear as to what everyone's contribution is, so that we have appropriate structures to implement the 2050 strategy.

In terms of the Welsh Government, the strategy belongs to every subdivision within the organisation. A number of the strategy's main steps are in the hands of the education Minister, so the Government as a whole needs to be aware of the part that we all play. I can make it clear to Paul Davies that I and the education Minister have regular discussions about how we’re going to increase the number of people who go into teaching through the medium of Welsh, and one of the things we’ve done is to set aside £150,000 to try and encourage people to undertake A-levels through the medium of Welsh, and I hope that that then feeds through into people wanting to teach through the medium of Welsh.

In terms of amendments, we do agree with the first amendment, which restates a number of the strategic priorities that are already being implemented through our strategy, and then those from Plaid Cymru—well, I think it’s fair to say that, in the second amendment, after deciding not to press ahead with the new Bill, I committed to restarting the standards regime. I have started to consult with the main organisations that will be affected by the standards that are likely to be focused on next.

And, coming back to the cross-party point, there is support for the Welsh language, with surveys showing that the vast majority of the people of Wales, whether they’re Welsh speakers or not, are of the opinion that the Welsh language is something to take pride in, and we need to celebrate that. So, our message is that our vision for the Welsh language is an inclusive one, a broad-ranging one, and that we’re eager to welcome new people into the sphere of the language, and, in doing so, I am confident that we can move forward confidently towards establishing a million Welsh speakers.

Thank you. I now call on Suzy Davies to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I don’t have a great deal of time, unfortunately, but could I just start by thanking Plaid for supporting some of our points? I look forward to you bringing forward your own debate in terms of the amendments that you have tabled. Now, it’s disappointing that you’ve deleted the final point rather than adding a new point. We, perhaps, could have agreed but for that, but I do believe that there should be timetable in place for standards, although we may disagree as to where that should lead us.

That’s why we are slightly confused by the Welsh Government’s decision to delete our motion entirely. Of course the strategy doesn’t just relate to this aspect of things. I am trying to analyse, through individual debates such as this, where we can hold the Welsh Government to account for its failings on certain aspects of its strategy. Today, we’re focusing on small businesses, not education, because it seems to me that the Government isn’t willing to provide the opportunity to scrutinise.

Once again, it has shown disrespect, unfortunately—I have to say that—for this Parliament by removing a substantial part of an opposition motion and, essentially, replacing it with its motion. Well, no: if you have confidence in your strategy, Minister, introduce a debate in your own time. Points 3 and 4 respond to your disheartening engagement with this Assembly on the progress of your strategy and its effectiveness. Why won't you report to this place twice a year on overall progress? Why don't you report back to us on the success or otherwise of the work of your Government with small businesses? What is your significant progress, Minister? Three years, and what exactly has your strategy delivered? Thank you.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendments. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. Therefore, we will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.