This might take a while. You've got teachers there who have actually really bought into the principle. They've done their continuous professional development in order to make sure that they're in a position to develop and deliver a bac in a way that relates to the pupils as well, and they've looked at the community in which they work to see how they can use the freedom of how to populate the bac to get this right. This is exactly what the new curriculum could look like, but, as we heard, we had evidence from students in other schools, who were basically being told what to study: 'Just do a little bit extra than what you did at post 16, add bits of work you've already done.' That is not how the bac should work.

So, if you'll bear with me, Dirprwy Lywydd, we've heard some of this: not enough time, duplicating work done in earlier years, reducing time for other studies, marking seems not commensurate with effort needed—this is the voice of pupils and students. And it's not that they don't value the skills, but it's that the process of achieving them can be inefficient, disproportionate, inconsistent and unappreciated by employers and, in some cases, further education and higher education.

I just want to finish, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, on the Government's ambivalence on whether the bac should be compulsory. The committee sought clarity, but perhaps you can confirm, Minister, that you agree that you cannot make this compulsory post 16. I see now that colleges are getting more money to deliver it—teachers tell me it's more expensive to deliver than A-levels—so that's good. But that leaves colleges whose students don't want to take this at something of a financial disadvantage now, doesn't it? At least for the two years where students have just embarked on a programme where they haven't chosen the bac.

I want to make this final point. If money is being used as an incentive for students to take this as an additional, rather than an alternative qualification, this may call into question the prioritisation of students' mental well-being, and, as you know, Minister, our committee's had plenty to say about that.