Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. What opportunities has the Welsh Government identified as a result of Brexit?

Well, it's important, isn't it, to try and be clear-sighted about these things? It is absolutely our view that the overwhelming outcome of Brexit on Wales is negative. A 'no deal' Brexit, which he is happy to tolerate—and the candidate in the Conservative leadership that he supports is increasingly keen upon—would be particularly damaging for Wales. But there are aspects of the process that we've been engaging in so far that can provide aspects of optimism for the future. For example, if the UK Government lives up to its promises that we should have not a penny less and not a power taken away, in relation to future structural funds here in Wales, there are opportunities for those funds to be deployed in ways that, free from the constraints of particular European programmes, can even better support the Welsh economy. But perhaps he can join me in pressing the Secretary of State for Wales and the UK Government to live up to those commitments, which they've so singularly failed to do so far. There are also opportunities for us, if the proposals that the Welsh Government have put forward were taken up, to strengthen the devolution settlement, and strengthen inter-governmental machinery, which has been exposed, as a consequence of Brexit, to be so inadequate. But he will have seen from the statements the First Minister, and I, and others have made, over the course of the last week to 10 days, that the UK Government has, so far at least, fallen significantly short in that respect as well.

Well, the truth is that, despite the constant doom and gloom from the Welsh Government, and from you, Minister, the reality is that there will be some fantastic opportunities for Wales, once the barriers that are currently in place and the shackles that are currently there as a result of our membership of the European Union have been removed. We will no longer have to walk on eggshells, worrying about compliance with EU rules, when legislation, for example, is presented to this Chamber. And I'm surprised you didn't refer—[Interruption.] I'm surprised that you didn't refer to legislation at all in your response. Because, as you will know, Portugal has stood in the way of the introduction of minimum alcohol pricing here in Wales—something that this Chamber voted to support in the interests of the health and well-being of Welsh citizens. So, do you agree with me that leaving the EU gives us an opportunity to get on in helping the health and well-being of our citizens, by delivering that minimum alcohol price, which this Chamber supported? And can you tell us what action you are taking in order to ensure that the legislative programme in the future takes advantage of the opportunities that might appear post Brexit?

Well, on the question of legislation, I think he misunderstands the situation. The Portuguese intervention is part of a set of rights and processes that exist across the European Union, which underpin the legislative framework through which we've been operating, and continue to operate, as member states. And we are proud of the fact in this place, I think, that we operate within the framework of European law, which has developed a network of human rights and protections for our citizens here in Wales, environmental protections, social protections, workforce protections, which his party—or certainly he—would happily throw away, it seems, in the support that he shows for a 'no deal' Brexit. We here should be proud of that, rather than regard it as an imposition. We've worked very hard in the Welsh Government, with other Governments across the UK, to ensure that we have been transposing the EU body of law into Welsh law so that those rights are not lost on the point of exit, because we regard them as an asset to Welsh public life and not the regulatory burden that he implies they should be. 

It speaks volumes, frankly, Minister, that this administration here in Wales will take every single opportunity that it can to criticise the UK Government, no matter how unfair that criticism is, and yet you jump at the chance to praise the European Union no matter how undeserved that praise might be. We heard this week that the Welsh Labour Party's priorities are clear. It's the European Union first, and the union of the United Kingdom last. And because this Chamber won't hear it from the Brexit Minister, let me tell you about the opportunities that we will see, because, of course, we will see the regulatory burden rolled back, potentially, from many businesses that don't need to trade overseas with export. We will also see, of course, some significant savings for the taxpayer. We will have the shared prosperity fund to replace the European Union funds that we will lose. And, of course, the two candidates for the leadership of the Conservative Party, one of whom will become Prime Minister, have both guaranteed that Wales will not lose out a single penny of European funding compared to the cash that it receives to date.

So, instead of having to apply rules here in the UK that benefit farmers in France, fishermen in Iceland, wine producers in Portugal, don't you think it would be better to be able to have our own rules that support farmers here, food and drink producers here in Wales? And can you explain how you are respecting the outcome of the referendum, which is what you promised to do in the aftermath of the referendum back in June 2016? You said that you would respect the result as a Welsh Government and seek to implement that result. You stood on a manifesto that said that you would respect the result. You have now, of course, rolled back from that, kicking sand in the eyes of the electorate, rejecting the decision they made to leave the European Union. So, can you explain why you have shifted your position so significantly, and when will you wake up, smell the coffee, and look at Brexit as a wonderful and glorious opportunity for Wales, not the sort of doom and gloom that you are predicting?

Well, I'm going to resist the temptation of the Pollyanna-like blandishments of the opposition spokesman in this regard. Can I just pick him up on one point? He talks about the shared prosperity fund and the commitments made in relation to that. Let's be clear: what Boris Johnson said last Friday was a constitutional outrage—the fact that those funds would be better deployed if there was a Conservative element to them, not a UK Government element, but a Conservative element. What does that mean? If he wants the Conservatives to manage those funds, the Conservatives need to win an election here in Wales, which you haven't done during the last 100 years. [Interruption.]

Okay. Let's listen to the Brexit Minister's response. 

I will tell you the extent to which the UK Government respect the devolution settlement in relation to that. When the Minister stood up in the House of Commons and told us we wouldn't be hearing about anything in relation to that fund until next year, that was the first we'd heard of that. There was no courtesy telling us what the plans were, despite pressing for that. So, that is the extent of respect for the devolution boundary.

He asks me about respecting the result of the last referendum. He knows very well that we on these benches have advocated for a long time a form of Brexit that respected the result of the 2016 referendum whilst doing the least damage possible to Wales. And the intransigence of the Prime Minister for his party in Parliament stood in the path of that outcome. And we recognise here, which he should recognise, that we have reached the end of the road in relation to that, and the only means of avoiding a 'no deal' Brexit, for which there is no mandate in that referendum result, is a referendum that we are calling for. 

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell. 

Minister, Labour's new Brexit policy is to support a referendum on Brexit and a campaign to remain if Boris Johnson or Jeremy Hunt is Prime Minister, while intending to renegotiate and leave if Jeremy Corbyn is Prime Minister. I'm sure people who've been following the evolution of Labour policy will conclude that there have now been so many backward steps to accompany every forward step that Jeremy Corbyn's feet have become entangled and he is now in a metaphorical confused heap on the floor. [Interruption.] The logical consequence of this new policy is that the only way to ensure that Labour campaigns to remain in any future referendum is to ensure that your party is not in power in Westminster.  

No, it's not out of order. Can you carry on, Delyth Jewell, please? And can we have some silence from the backbenches of the Labour Party? 

Minister, do you therefore agree that, if there is a general election, it would make sense for people who wish to see Labour campaign to remain in the EU in any future referendum to vote for parties that will campaign to remain under any circumstances? 

Well, I think it's somewhat churlish, when one has been calling for a referendum, not to welcome the fact that a party then promises a referendum as a recognition of progress. But the Member knows very clearly what our position is here, as a Welsh Labour Government in Wales. We have advocated for a position as described in the joint paper that we had with Plaid Cymru. We have recognised that we have reached the end of the road in relation to that, and we call for a referendum in relation to any departure on any terms or a 'no deal' departure, whichever Prime Minister negotiates those terms. She will know that we continue to advocate that in all our discussions with the UK Government and to ask them to take proactive steps to make that a reality. The First Minister has written to all Welsh Members of Parliament asking them to join the calls in favour of a referendum and to ensure that Parliament plays its part in making that a reality, and we are happy to work with any other party who shares that objective. 

Thank you, Minister. That was a valiant attempt to justify the latest manifestation of your party's Brexit policy, though I suspect people watching will want to draw their own conclusions as to whether that argument holds water. 

Boris Johnson recently said that if he were Prime Minister, he'd want a strong Conservative influence over how the EU funding replacement scheme—the shared prosperity fund—was spent in Wales, and the Conservatives, in this Chamber today, have said that, 'You lot should not be trusted with that'. Their words not mine. Since the Conservatives are not in power here, this suggests that Boris Johnson wants the fund to be administered from Westminster, or that there may be some truth to the rumour that his friend, not mine, the Secretary of State for Wales, wants it to be administered by local authorities. Do you agree with me, Minister, that this would be a naked power grab, which would run counter to the Wales Act 2017, and that it should also therefore be possibly illegal since powers over economic development, including the administration and spending of regional funds, are devolved to this Assembly?  

Well, I echo the sentiments in the Member's question. As I mentioned a few moments ago, I think it would be outrageous for that to be what happens. The Prime Minister has made commitments, which she is not living up to. Boris Johnson, in making that statement, raises alarm bells, as her question implies. We are absolutely clear that we should not suffer a penny less of the funding that we have received here in Wales, and that the powers over those funds should be exercised here in this Assembly by the Welsh Government on behalf of the people of Wales, because we are best placed here to manage our economic development in Wales. 

Thank you, Minister. The Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language told the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee recently that your Government is developing red lines in relation to devolved areas that it does not wish to be included in future trade agreements. Minister, can you tell us what those red lines are? She also told us that the Welsh Government would be willing to take the UK Government to court if it tried to sell off the Welsh NHS as part of a future trade agreement with the US. But, as you will know, under section 82 of the Wales Act, the Secretary of State has the power to direct Welsh Ministers to implement directives contained within agreements that fall outside their devolved competence. Could you, therefore, please assure us what actions your Government could take were the UK Government to invoke section 82 in order to try to force Welsh Government Ministers to implement damaging measures that they don't agree with, and whether this would involve possibly taking the UK Government to court, as your colleague the international relations Minister has indicated? 

Well, our position, as a Government, is not that we should have a veto in relation to these matters, but that where the UK Government is formulating a negotiating position for international negotiations of whatever type, they should not normally proceed with that negotiating mandate unless they have secured the agreement of devolved administrations, where devolved competencies are directly affected, or, where they can be indirectly affected, we should also be involved in those discussions. That seems to us to be a fundamentally reasonable request, and an appropriate role for the Welsh Government in those negotiations. We cannot be expected, nor can any devolved administration be expected, to co-operate in how those international obligations are implemented if we haven't been given a voice in formulating those positions at the start.

I would say that this is an important devolution principle, but it’s also an important principle from the point of view of the credibility of the UK Government. The European Union, and our partners in the European Union, know very well what is devolved to different nations within the United Kingdom, and they will know very well that the implementation of those obligations will rest on the shoulders of devolved administrations and legislatures. And, therefore, to proceed in the teeth of opposition to implementation of some of those obligations would be very naïve and would fundamentally affect the credibility of the UK Government in those negotiations.

I made that point very directly at the last JMC(EN) to David Lidington, when I pointed out what had been said in this Chamber and elsewhere, that if a future UK Government were to seek to proceed with the kind of trade deal that Donald Trump was championing in the press conference with Theresa May a few weeks ago, the Welsh Government would refuse to implement the privatisation of the NHS in Wales. We have been absolutely clear about that. That has been our position; it remains our position and it will be our position.